Multiple Belts?

Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby rateourmover » Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:11 am

Johnny

This will definitely take us off-piste so I think I may start a new thread in General Audio. I won't be able to do that for a day or two (which includes checking to see if I'm simply duplicating an existing thread or two).

Meanwhile - just to reiterate the oft-quoted collective wisdom on this, there really is no silver bullet. Not even a few silver bullets. We are all on The Never-Ending Journey ... and I suspect I may be in the upper foothills.

Maybe there is some mileage in a thread which discusses priority lists and so yields an organised Plan Of Attack. Just for starters, easily at the top of my list - and therefore the starting point - is to provide clean consistent electricity to all your equipment.

If others think a Plan Of Attack has been adequately developed already I'd be grateful if you pointed me there.

Back here with Multiple Belts and related - how to accentuate the positives and eliminate the negatives.
SuperScoutMstrRef. Terracone feet onto Symposium Ultra. Mystic Mat, 3belts, Lyra Skala, Dorian mono, MusicMaker III Moving Iron. HRX & Stillpoints LP1 wts. Hovland HP200P & Radia. (HP100 & Sapphire in their boxes. Interested ?)
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby Orchids1 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:21 am

Rate, I assume you used the Svelte, Svelte Plus and Ultra under different components or under the turntable in succession and not in combination. If the latter, you are, indeed, the "king of vibration control", but you must need a step ladder to put a record on the platter. Notwithstanding your vibration/hum issues and your current interest in Stillpoints, which suggests dissatisfaction with your prior results, are you able to assess the Ultra platform, which I'm considering. Thanks. Rich
Avenger (w/mods)+SS Paua, Phoenix Eagle psu/tach, Sutherland 20/20, Audionet Pre1G3, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, JL e112 subs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cbl; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac; dedic. 20A circuits.
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby rateourmover » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:36 am

Context first:
Some units have a single Symposium platform under them, sat atop their Audiophile Base or Stratabase platform. Some have just the Audiophile Base or Stratabase under them.
Hovland Pre- and Power each have a Svelte Plus with Symposium RollerBlock Jnr. HDSE and Superballs.
Ayon CD3-sx has RollerBlocks Series 2+ with Grade 2.5 Superballs. No Symposium platform.
EAR834P phono has Svelte and RollerBlock Jnrs. SDS just Rollerblock Jnrs on Base platform.
I also use Symposium FatPadz or PointPadz under Naim NAT02 tuner and Nakamichi CR7 cassette deck.
I'm considering buying Symposium Somethings for my Audience adeptResponse power conditioner.

So you see I'm a big Symposium fan - and I got that way through listening.

The SuperScoutmasterReference deck is a little different. It needs to be rock-solid not floaty. So it has EdenSound Terracone feet onto a Symposium Ultra platform. This is the main point of your query.

I believe my residual noise issue (relatively slight) is VPI motor noise transmitted mainly through the three belts to the platter. It barely matters what shelf it's on when this happens - so there's no dissatisfaction with the shelf. I've yet to try Brf's suggestion to slacken the belts a little but am hopeful it will improve things. It makes sense. Leaving aside the possible upgrade to Stillpoints under deck and motor for now - there is no doubt in my mind the Ultra does what it says - drains and dissipates mechanical energy. I remember being very pleased with the results but, to be honest, it's so long now I can't describe or quantify. What you are moving from will also of course affect your assessment of nature and degree of change.

I'd go for it. Think how much Symposium stuff you see for sale on AudioGon..

I should finally add I'm no longer interested in exhaustive before-and-after listening tests. I want to listen to my music not my kit. I've decided I will aim for consistency of solution - trusting such an approach will incrementally pull on the same end of the rope. For this reason I also have an all-Audience loom. Powercords, interconnects, speaker cables and power conditioner.
Last edited by rateourmover on Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SuperScoutMstrRef. Terracone feet onto Symposium Ultra. Mystic Mat, 3belts, Lyra Skala, Dorian mono, MusicMaker III Moving Iron. HRX & Stillpoints LP1 wts. Hovland HP200P & Radia. (HP100 & Sapphire in their boxes. Interested ?)
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby rateourmover » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:50 am

Postman has just delivered my Stillpoints LP1 record weight ! - so now I look forward to trying that once I've assessed Brf's belt-slackening fix.

And I said I'd given up on comparative listening sessions. Audiophiles seem to have a similar affliction to alcoholics. Maybe I should listen to the changes with a large malt pulling on the same end of my rope.
SuperScoutMstrRef. Terracone feet onto Symposium Ultra. Mystic Mat, 3belts, Lyra Skala, Dorian mono, MusicMaker III Moving Iron. HRX & Stillpoints LP1 wts. Hovland HP200P & Radia. (HP100 & Sapphire in their boxes. Interested ?)
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby Orchids1 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:44 pm

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I agree that the objective here should be to enjoy the music, not listen to the system, which is also what I'm trying to do at this point, even though there are a few relatively modest changes I'm still thinking about. It is certainly what I started out to do in the first place. However, it's not easy, after the effort required to assemble a good-sounding system, which, of course, entails listening to changes in the system. In that light, I don't like to ask you to do a comparison (truly), but I'd be interested to know whether you notice a difference using 1) the Stillpoints weight alone, 2) a periphery ring alone and 3) the two in combination. My thinking is that a periphery ring might all but eliminate the benefit of the Stillpoints weight. I will understand if you don't care to do that. Rich
Avenger (w/mods)+SS Paua, Phoenix Eagle psu/tach, Sutherland 20/20, Audionet Pre1G3, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, JL e112 subs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cbl; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac; dedic. 20A circuits.
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby Brf » Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:44 pm

Orchids1 wrote: My thinking is that a periphery ring might all but eliminate the benefit of the Stillpoints weight. I will understand if you don't care to do that. Rich


Hi Orchids, you "typically" still need a center weight when using a periphery ring for the simple fact that you want the entire record coupled to the platter without any gaps. If you use a periphery ring w/o the center weight, there is a very good possibility that the periphery ring will cause the record to become a convex surface
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby Advanced101 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:01 pm

I have the Stillpoints LPI. After trying a bunch of different Center Weights and Periphery ring combinations, I believe that the best sounding combination is the LPI + Periphery ring. Although most of the time I run with just the LPI since I am lazy.
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby rateourmover » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:00 pm

OK Orchids1 - I'll give it a go. It will take at least a few days as I've a backlog of HoneyDos over here.

I'd be interested to know whether you notice a difference using 1) the Stillpoints weight alone, 2) a periphery ring alone and 3) the two in combination. My thinking is that a periphery ring might all but eliminate the benefit of the Stillpoints weight.


In addition to your 1) 2) 3) I'd want to check out using the VPI HRX weight I have as standard. I'm sure there would be different records that respond differently so it will be with the caveat that my old ears and a specific record are used. OK, maybe two records as well as two ears.
SuperScoutMstrRef. Terracone feet onto Symposium Ultra. Mystic Mat, 3belts, Lyra Skala, Dorian mono, MusicMaker III Moving Iron. HRX & Stillpoints LP1 wts. Hovland HP200P & Radia. (HP100 & Sapphire in their boxes. Interested ?)
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby Orchids1 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:34 pm

Brf/Rate, Agreed. I was just moving too fast. What I was really trying to get at is this: Does the Stillpoints weight, either alone or combined with the periphery ring, sound meaningfully better than the periphery ring and the standard VPI weight. My guess is that the 7lb weight of the periphery ring (together with it's flywheel effect) and the weight of the standard VPI center weight will make the sonic benefit of the Stillpoints weight, alone or with the ring, rather modest or virtually nonexistent. Sorry for the mix up. Rich
Avenger (w/mods)+SS Paua, Phoenix Eagle psu/tach, Sutherland 20/20, Audionet Pre1G3, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, JL e112 subs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cbl; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac; dedic. 20A circuits.
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Re: Multiple Belts?

Postby thesmurfsvillage » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:03 pm

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but couldn't find an answer in my searches..Since it's belt replacement time, I decided to try the 4-0 surgeon's silk and need some advice.

1. The 4-0 silk is so tiny and flimsy, I am having a major problem tying the blood knot. I've watched several "fishing" video methods, but does anyone have a good method to share for our non-fishing purposes, lol?

2. I see that once the knot is tied, the length cannot be adjusted--so what is the best way to precisely measure the desired length, to get a snug enough loop from platter to pulley on my Classic Signature?

Thanks in advance, for saving me much time and frustration!

-Billy
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