14 INCH FATBOY-

14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby MMMC » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:22 am

Hello Harry,

I have 2 questions which I hope the answers to are not classified as TOP SECRET within VPI.

1. What is the current status of the development of a 14 inch Fatboy tonearm?

2. If the answer is "Development is in process", what might be a projection of the date for it's release for sale to the public, and will it be user upgrade-able? The 14 inch Fatboy will hopefully be mated with the Magnetic platter, which I am already very sure (the Mag Platter) will be a factory required upgrade and installation.

My questions spring from the plan that my HRX should be the last turntable platform I ever need to purchase when configured with the Magnetic platter option, and a 14 inch Fatboy tonearm, so currently saving for these two future purchases.

Thank you.
MMMC
One of the last HR-X production/ 3DR 12" arm/ ZYX Universe II LOMC with Copper wire/ RCM Sensor 2 phono preamp/ Silver Audio Appasionata IC/ Audio Sensibiity Statement Silver Phono V2 IC
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Harry » Sat Aug 24, 2019 1:55 pm

You will see and listen to the 14" FatBoy at the Capitol Audio Show on our new state of the art direct drive + magnetic drive Vanquish three arm table! Is that enough info for now because it I say anything else I will get an ice pick in my shoulder!!!

HW
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby MMMC » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:43 am

Harry wrote:You will see and listen to the 14" FatBoy at the Capitol Audio Show on our new state of the art direct drive + magnetic drive Vanquish three arm table! Is that enough info for now because it I say anything else I will get an ice pick in my shoulder!!!

HW


Harry,
Thank you for the reply, and yes, it is enough info, and I absolutely do not want to think about you wearing an ice pick on my behalf. Unfortunately for me, I am a left coast dweller, which means I will not be able to attend the Capitol Audio Show. The fact that it is a "live" product that will be available in the near future is the information I was seeking. Thank you very much!

MMMC
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Brf » Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:27 am

I wonder if the new 14" Fatboy is going to have a zero offset headshell that HW alluded to an earlier post.
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby tony22 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:35 am

Harry wrote:You will see and listen to the 14" FatBoy at the Capitol Audio Show on our new state of the art direct drive + magnetic drive Vanquish three arm table! Is that enough info for now because it I say anything else I will get an ice pick in my shoulder!!!

HW


Sigh. That's it Harry. Now you've made me decide to go to CAF! :mrgreen:
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Harry » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:54 am

Yes BRF, zero offset, no skating force at all. Smooth as a tape when you remove that.

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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby suntea » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:21 am

Harry wrote:Yes BRF, zero offset, no skating force at all. Smooth as a tape when you remove that.

HW

Sounds very interesting. Can the 14 inch fatboy be used on a Classic 3? Thanks.
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Orchids1 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:54 am

I should probably do an internet search for “tonearm geometry” and try to answer this question for myself, but if a “zero offset headshell” means that the arm and cartridge form a perfectly straight line, with no offset angle, then there would be only one null point, not two, and greater tracking error. If that’s correct, I don’t see the benefit unless skate force is reduced, but that would seem to be a poor trade off. I know that many DJs use long straight arms with no offset, but I believe that they have their own reasons for that. Rich
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Ducky » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:17 pm

Orchids1-

I believe you are correct, as this has been discussed before. Not only will tracking error increase (more distortion), but skating force is only zero at the one null point. Inside of that, there will be conventional skating force (pulling the cart towards the spindle) and outside of the null, there will be reverse skating force, pulling the cart away from the spindle. It is difficult to see the rational for a longer arm (harder to tame resonance) and no offset (increased distortion and dual skating forces).
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Re: 14 INCH FATBOY-

Postby Brf » Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:03 pm

Skating force is a rotational torque caused by frictional forces of the stylus when not aligned with the arm’s pivot. With a zero offset tonearm, there can be no rotational torque. With a zero offset tonearm, when a cartridge is not tangential to the groove, the stylus tip will ride up on the groove wall causing distortion. This type of distortion cannot be offset with the use of an opposing force i.e. anti-skate.

When designing a tonearm, solving one mechanical problem typically introduces another, therefore, designing a tonearm is all about making engineering compromises with each designer having their own opinion. I chose the word “opinion” on purpose, as each designer’s creates their own hierarchy of bias and makes the appropriate compromises to achieve said goal.

A 14” tonearm with a zero offset headshell would lead one to believe that the designer had the following beliefs:

• Increasing the arm’s effective length reduces the arc in which the arm travels, therefore, reducing tracking error
• Material science of 3D printing can control/dampen resonance, provide adequate stiffness and achieving an appropriate effective mass
• Skating forces caused by employing an offset headshell has a more detrimental effect on sound than a slight increase in tracking error cause by having a single point of tangency

I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
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