Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Votan » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:13 pm

930turbo wrote:Hi guys ,

Has anybody tried the Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable . I’m currently using a VPI Phono Cable the first version and it seems I’m having some bright / harsh analytic sound w/ the FatBoy unipivot 12” w/ the dual pivot . I’ve adjusted the VTA , slightly tail down ( tried parallel VTA as well ) I removed the spacer flatform of my VTA Base in order to do this , tracking force at 1.75 gram , Azimuth adjusted via Fogzometer . I was using the same cartridge that I used in my 12.7 metal tonearm and did not have this problem . I tried my old audio technica Phono cable that I had since college and it seems the harshness has disappeared but w/ lost of detail. It seems in my current setup the Lyra , Nordost internal tonearm wiring and the VPI Phono Cable is not a good match.

Thanks in advance ,

930

Hi 930turbo,
A buddy of mine has almost the same setup (ARC pre and power amps and Maggie's 3,5-now 20.1). This is a very relaxed setup that no analog front end (especially with Lyra Kleos which is the more relaxed from all today Lyras) has the right :) to make it sound bright / harsh and analytic. As well the sound of nordost reference tonearm's cable is very well balanced, freshly detailed but never bright/harsh (thanks God, as unfortunately are most Nordosts, even the most pricey that I have tried up today). But it needs some 70 hours to correctly settle. So be patient...
Also taking into account that sonically metalic JMW 12,7 is a bit more bright than all 3DRs (I haven't auditioned a fatboy yet) it's a bit curious that you describe exactly the opposite.
So, are you sure that everything with your tt's setup is really O.K.? For example your vta is as it should, or it's a bit higher in the pivot side? Because sometimes the tapered shape of armtube is misleading.
Or, are you sure that you measure the vtf by the book? (weighting plate of electronic scale at the exact same height as the record on the platter). Because if it's higher you may read 1,75g, but the real vtf could be 1,70-1,72g.
Concerning the Cardas Golden Reference I have not tried its phono cable, but for many years I used Golden Cross and Golden Reference interconnects, and I totally agree with everything Brf said about it. I now use Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 as phono cable. VPI first batches phono cables are affordable and sonically O.K. for plung and play purposes for someone's new VPI TT, but by no means could compared sonically to the above mentioned cables
Last edited by Votan on Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Stringreen » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:53 pm

I guess that's what makes the world go 'round. In my system Wireworld was far better than Cardas which sounded dull, fuzzy and flat.
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Golear » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:33 pm

Stringreen wrote:I guess that's what makes the world go 'round. In my system Wireworld was far better than Cardas which sounded dull, fuzzy and flat.


A friend of mine had Cardas Golden Reference cable. It sounded dull, fuzzy and flat in his system, too.
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Votan » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:35 am

This is exactly the big challenge (but a big torture as well) with cables in all their applications and with the corresponding recommendations each one of us gives, regarding their sonic imprint in hi end. And this is not to a large extent because Brf's and my ears perceived as good the sonics of Cardas GR cables, which Golear and Stringreen perceived as not to their tastes, been all 4 of us in the exact same panel the same moment.
But mainly in how the impedance ( but also metallurgy, etc.) of the exact same cable interferes with the relevant characteristics of donor and receiver devices or apparatuses in each different set up. Which heavily influences the final sonic result, giving totally different results in different set ups, even to the same ears.
To give an example, Cardas Golden Reference, in my setup as interconnects between my Moon 740P preamp and the Active ATC 100 speakers (active cross over feeding 3 separate amps, each one for each driver) were very smooth relaxed cables with extended (but never harsh) high level resolution, enormous dimensionality (width and depth), and dynamically (micro-macro) balanced (up to now only AudioQuest Niagaras managed to overcome them in almost all areas).
But in my buddy's ARC pre/power with 20.1 Maggies, Golden Reference to the exact same ears were dull, fuzzy and flat too!
To return to the OP's query, the good news for most phono cables are that most phono stages are able to be adjusted for capacitance and resistance in order to be compatible (to some extent of course) with the most phono cables' impedance and cart's relevant characteristics. But even so, the bad (?) news are that each one phono cable ultimately retains a lot of its own distinct sonic imprint.
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Golear » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:33 pm

One additional observation...

I've never had good results with an RTH that puts the cartridge tail down. For me, the best results (always) came from a parallel or slightly tail up arrangement. You might want to check the cartridge....
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby 930turbo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:27 pm

Votan wrote:
930turbo wrote:Hi guys ,

Has anybody tried the Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable . I’m currently using a VPI Phono Cable the first version and it seems I’m having some bright / harsh analytic sound w/ the FatBoy unipivot 12” w/ the dual pivot . I’ve adjusted the VTA , slightly tail down ( tried parallel VTA as well ) I removed the spacer flatform of my VTA Base in order to do this , tracking force at 1.75 gram , Azimuth adjusted via Fogzometer . I was using the same cartridge that I used in my 12.7 metal tonearm and did not have this problem . I tried my old audio technica Phono cable that I had since college and it seems the harshness has disappeared but w/ lost of detail. It seems in my current setup the Lyra , Nordost internal tonearm wiring and the VPI Phono Cable is not a good match.

Thanks in advance ,

930

Hi 930turbo,
A buddy of mine has almost the same setup (ARC pre and power amps and Maggie's 3,5-now 20.1). This is a very relaxed setup that no analog front end (especially with Lyra Kleos which is the more relaxed from all today Lyras) has the right :) to make it sound bright / harsh and analytic. As well the sound of nordost reference tonearm's cable is very well balanced, freshly detailed but never bright/harsh (thanks God, as unfortunately are most Nordosts, even the most pricey that I have tried up today). But it needs some 70 hours to correctly settle. So be patient...
Also taking into account that sonically metalic JMW 12,7 is a bit more bright than all 3DRs (I haven't auditioned a fatboy yet) it's a bit curious that you describe exactly the opposite.
So, are you sure that everything with your tt's setup is really O.K.? For example your vta is as it should, or it's a bit higher in the pivot side? Because sometimes the tapered shape of armtube is misleading.
Or, are you sure that you measure the vtf by the book? (weighting plate of electronic scale at the exact same height as the record on the platter). Because if it's higher you may read 1,75g, but the real vtf could be 1,70-1,72g.
Concerning the Cardas Golden Reference I have not tried its phono cable, but for many years I used Golden Cross and Golden Reference interconnects, and I totally agree with everything Brf said about it. I now use Wireworld Silver Eclipse 8 as phono cable. VPI first batches phono cables are affordable and sonically O.K. for plung and play purposes for someone's new VPI TT, but by no means could compared sonically to the above mentioned cables


Hi Votan ,

Thank you very much for the reply . You are right regarding the break in process of more or less 70 hours for the Nordost internal cable of the FatBoy . It’s almost a night and day difference . Theoretically this shouldn’t happen due to low micro volt level my MC cartridge ‘s output . But it did . Now the cartridge sounds much smoother , less analytical and much less sibilance. This happened the day prior to my buddy’s adjustment of my VTA to 92 degrees using a USB microscope . After adjustment I checked alignment ( using the VPI Jig ) and noticed that the stylus has retracted a little bit w/ regards to the overhang . I readjusted my cartridge’s overhang , alignment , VTF , Azimuth w/ the aid of a Fogzometer and now I’m happy w/ my HR-X / FatBoy’s performance . Less sibilance , broader soundstage , more bloom , thicker midrange texture . Bass is a revelation w/ the dual pivot . Now w/ regards to the Phono cable I’m currently using the Cardas Golden Reference ( loaned by a friend) and will try to get in touch w/ audio sensibility . Might as well try also Wireworld ( David Salzt used be partners the Steve , forgot his last name ) w/ they’re like the sister company of Straightwire both based in Florida .

Best regard ,

930
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Re: Cardas Golden Reference Phono Cable

Postby Votan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:08 pm

Hi 930turbo,
I'm glad everything is O.K. now in your analog setup! If you are planning to try Wireworld phono cables, keep in mind two things:
1. Although in the Wireworld website only seems to manufacture 5-pin to RCA phono cables, they also manufacture RCA to RCA.
2. It is also worth noting that the Silver Eclipse 8 has OCC-7N Silver-clad Copper conductors, while the exact half the price Eclipse 8 has OCC-7N Copper ones. The first one is very transparent with wider frequency extremes and spaces, but the second one is a bit warmer but by no means inferior, the choice been system dependent.
Good luck
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