Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby tony22 » Thu May 16, 2019 6:24 pm

I'm not so sure... Here's a pic of the counterweight (you can see shoved back a little on the collar) with my LP-S. The cart weighs in at just a hair under 16 grams - I think one of the heaviest carts out there. I actually have a bit more backoff available on the stub of my gimbal Fatboy, so I think the stock counterweight could handle a cart even a bit heavier. I'm running the Benz at 1.94 grams VTF.

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Pass XP-20 & XP-15, AVA 600R, Shahinian speakers, PS Audio DMP & DS, Avenger w/mods, 12" Fatboy gimbal + 2nd mount, Benz LPS, VAS & SS carts, Ortofon Quintet Mono, Logitech Touch, RSA Haley and PSA conditioning, PAD and AZ cables.
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby 10ovr » Thu May 16, 2019 6:59 pm

tony22 wrote:I'm not so sure... Here's a pic of the counterweight (you can see shoved back a little on the collar) with my LP-S. The cart weighs in at just a hair under 16 grams - I think one of the heaviest carts out there. I actually have a bit more backoff available on the stub of my gimbal Fatboy, so I think the stock counterweight could handle a cart even a bit heavier. I'm running the Benz at 1.94 grams VTF.

IMG_0132.JPG

You should not have to slide the weight back on the collar and you barley have any knob showing to adjust,, :(
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby tony22 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:44 pm

I agree, 10ovr. I didn't have to pull the counterweight back on the collar, but I did - influenced I think by a lot of what I was reading here. I actually could push it back in. It would expose more of the thumbscrew but of course cause me to have to back off the weight a bit more. A zero sum result, but I guess what I'm saying is that with the stock counterweight I can effectively support carts somewhere North of 16 grams. There aren't too many carts that heavy; if that's about the limit of the stock counterweight it seems acceptable to me. If a cart that heavy only required the weight to be put out maybe halfway back on the stub - or even let's say a bit more - I think it would be at the expense of having a much shorter usable length on the stub for the majority of carts, that are much lighter than the LP-S.

I think the Tzar DST is the heaviest cart out there at 17.5 grams. If it were me I'd design the Fatboy counterweight and stub length to be maxed out with being able to support maybe 18 grams at a usable VTF. That would make the entire length of the stub usable for the full range of cartridge weights. My guess is the Fatboy is close to that. Just my opinion.

Oh BTW, I'm in the middle of mounting another cart on the 10" 3D in the back. That's why it looks that way. :)
Pass XP-20 & XP-15, AVA 600R, Shahinian speakers, PS Audio DMP & DS, Avenger w/mods, 12" Fatboy gimbal + 2nd mount, Benz LPS, VAS & SS carts, Ortofon Quintet Mono, Logitech Touch, RSA Haley and PSA conditioning, PAD and AZ cables.
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BRF? Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterwei

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sat May 18, 2019 3:18 pm

Brent, please jump in here and explain the physics of running the tonearm counterweight in it's furthermost back position. Maybe it doesn't matter, but doesn't this affect the inertia of the tonearm and the effective mass calculation. Having limited range here seems to me like a limitation that is not necessary. This isn't the most ideal situation for a lot of cartridge options is it?

I guess the VPI gang is going to ignore the question????
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Re: BRF? Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counte

Postby Brf » Sat May 18, 2019 4:45 pm

Letsmakeadeal wrote:Brent, please jump in here and explain the physics of running the tonearm counterweight in it's furthermost back position. Maybe it doesn't matter, but doesn't this affect the inertia of the tonearm and the effective mass calculation. Having limited range here seems to me like a limitation that is not necessary.


Please see my response in this thread. http://vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11101&hilit=effective+mass
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sun May 19, 2019 3:30 pm

Thanks Brent. That is an interesting thread. I guess as long as we are using realtively low compliance cartridges the back end positioning of the counterweight is ok. Not sure about the alternative though.
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby miner » Mon May 20, 2019 2:15 pm

I have an Ortofon Cadenza Black on my 10.5 Fatboy arm. This cartridge weighs in at 10.7g and my CW is 99.5% all the way back on the stub. I was not able to balance the arm with it all the way back but was able to get VTF to 2.26g. I would prefer not to have the CW so far back on the stub, but closer to the pivot point. I tried a heavier CW but it was too heavy.
Last edited by miner on Tue May 21, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
McIntosh C2300 pre; McIntosh MC452 amp; McIntosh MCD500 SACD; VPI Aries 3 with 3D arm and Ort. Cadenza Black MC cartridge; Manley Chinook SE; PS Audio P5 reg.; VPI SDS; Pioneer RT707 R2R; Nakamichi ZX-7 cass.; Sf Electa Amator III; Sf Gravis II sub
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby tony22 » Mon May 20, 2019 3:19 pm

I just don't get this. :?: The only thing I can think of is that not all Fatboys have the same size counterweight. As I indicated above, I have a 16 gram LP-S on my Fatboy and have some additional room to travel - even with the weight slid back fully onto its collar. Not much, but it's there. I'd have thought with a 10 or 11 gram cart the weight would be about halfway back or maybe just a hair more. Are you using very heavy mounting screws?
Pass XP-20 & XP-15, AVA 600R, Shahinian speakers, PS Audio DMP & DS, Avenger w/mods, 12" Fatboy gimbal + 2nd mount, Benz LPS, VAS & SS carts, Ortofon Quintet Mono, Logitech Touch, RSA Haley and PSA conditioning, PAD and AZ cables.
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Mon May 20, 2019 3:40 pm

I guess VPI is going to let this turn into a Firestorm before they engage. Fact is there is an issue and we need an appropriate solution becoming of a 6K tonearm. I do not like having the counterweight all the way to the back to the n'th thread to achieve 2.3G tracking force. How hard is it to make an optional heavier counterweight or maybe a split weight that could be static? for those of us that want it. VPI has always had an assortment of different options for their previous arms. Why not now?
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Re: Hey Matt - Brewing Frustration - Fatboy Counterweight

Postby miner » Tue May 21, 2019 9:56 am

Are you using very heavy mounting screws?

No, I am using the mounting screws that came with the cartridge. I am confused, also.
McIntosh C2300 pre; McIntosh MC452 amp; McIntosh MCD500 SACD; VPI Aries 3 with 3D arm and Ort. Cadenza Black MC cartridge; Manley Chinook SE; PS Audio P5 reg.; VPI SDS; Pioneer RT707 R2R; Nakamichi ZX-7 cass.; Sf Electa Amator III; Sf Gravis II sub
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