Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby danomar » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:00 pm

I noticed that Dynavector cartridges are not longer listed on the recommended cartridges page. I understand that the page is merely intended to reflect what VPI are currently using, but it does give me pause to wonder why Dynavector is no longer represented. I note this because my XX2 decided to lose its right channel last week... :cry:

Any particular reason for no more Dynavectors?
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby Brf » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:49 am

Just because a cartridge in not on VPI's compatible list does not mean that it is not recommended. There are a lot of excellent compatible cartridges absent from the list. I know for a fact that most Dyna cartridges are very compatible with both the VPI metal and 3D printed arms. I own 3 Dyna cartridges including the XX2 mk2.
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby brianmch » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:34 pm

Do you have any experience with the 20xl2 (low) on a Classic Anni with 10.5 arm? I'm getting a lot of really tubby/rubbery bass. Mids and highs are pretty clean but its not really in balance. I've got it aligned correctly, using a VPI cable to my phono pre (Black Cube SE-don't laugh: its always been clean, clear, and fast similar to a low end Sutherland).
VPI Classic Anni|Dyna 20xl2|Lehmann Black Cube SE|SimAudio I5LE|Triangle Antal ESW
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby Brf » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:53 pm

brianmch wrote:Do you have any experience with the 20xl2 (low) on a Classic Anni with 10.5 arm? I'm getting a lot of really tubby/rubbery bass. Mids and highs are pretty clean but its not really in balance. I've got it aligned correctly, using a VPI cable to my phono pre (Black Cube SE-don't laugh: its always been clean, clear, and fast similar to a low end Sutherland).


Yes, I have experience with the 20xl on a VPI tonearm. The Dyna bass should be quick and impact full, not tubby. What are you loading are you using? Have you played with VTA?
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby brianmch » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:07 pm

My experience with other Dyna's (10x5 and 20xH), particularly with the Cube, has always resulted in bass like you described which is why I'm scratching my head. Nothing else in the system has changed to an unknown.

I've got a lined block coming to better align VTA. I think it's pretty close to level but may need adjusting; tail down is more bass/wooly and tail up is a little thinner, right?

Will play with the 3 impedance settings (47K, 1K, and 100). It's on 47K now which I understand to be wide open with the hottest upper end and thinnest bass.
VPI Classic Anni|Dyna 20xl2|Lehmann Black Cube SE|SimAudio I5LE|Triangle Antal ESW
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby Waxxy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:39 pm

brianmch wrote:
Will play with the 3 impedance settings (47K, 1K, and 100). It's on 47K now which I understand to be wide open with the hottest upper end and thinnest bass.


Not always...When decreasing the load on both my Lyra and Dyna 17d cartridges from 100 ohms to 333 ohms or even 500 ohms, the bass tends to become fuller along with the more extended high frequencies. Have you double-checked VTF? Too much force can lead to "tubby bass".
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby brianmch » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:29 pm

Checked it last night and it was on 100. Moving it to 1000 cleaned up things quite a bit. My first low output MC so I've had some things to learn.

I will double check VTA when the alignment block arrives. I've used a ruler and it's pretty flat. How sensitive is it to minute changes?

Funny about the VTF. The cartridge is open and has a really strong magnetic field. I can feel the magnetism when lowering the cart towards the scale. Can't bear to let the arm loose so the cantilever/diamond and scale mate that way. Ideas? Maybe lead on the scale, tare, then measure? I know this can change the measure point height-wise so should probably be careful.
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby edw » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:02 pm

Interesting. I'm using a 20x2L on a Scout II with a Hashimoto HM7 or Bob's Device's Sky30 SUT into a Lehmann Decade with loading at 80 ohms and the bass is full and not tubby.
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby brianmch » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:37 am

How do you do that Edw? I always thought that an SUT used a MM input whose load is fixed at 47k on the Cube SE? When Dip switch 1 is in the MM position the others are off aren’t they?

How much different is sound from the SUT than the internal gain system?
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Re: Dynavector no longer recommended..?

Postby edw » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:28 pm

brianmch wrote:How do you do that Edw? I always thought that an SUT used a MM input whose load is fixed at 47k on the Cube SE? When Dip switch 1 is in the MM position the others are off aren’t they?

How much different is sound from the SUT than the internal gain system?


The Lehmann Decade phono pre has a socket to add a custom resistor (no soldering needed). Your Lehmann Black Cube should have one too. I believe all their phono pre's do. Generally, SUT's do input into a phono's pre MM/47,000 Ohms. But you can change the loading to something different that is more optimal for your cart by adding a parallel resistor at the phono pre. There is a mathematical formula to do this. For example:

I use both my SUTs at the 15x turns ratio setting. This means the cart will see loading resistance equal to 47,000/15^2 or 208.9 Ohms.

The Dyna 20x2L typically likes to see 50-100 Ohms resistance in my experience. Too high a resistance and it will sound too bright. So you can add a parallel resistor to bring the resistance down from 208.9 Ohms. A "Y" RCA connector with the correct resistor soldered into a shielded RCA plug will work, but Lehmann Audio (and a few other pre's) has a dedicated socket for this that makes it easy. I use a 30,000 Ohms parallel resistor:

30,000 = 1 / [(1/Z) - (1/47,000)]

1/30,000 = 1/Z - 1/47,000

1/30,000 + 1/47,000 = 1/Z

18,312 = Z

then...

18,312/15^2 = 81.4 Ohms



As for the sound, you will be amazed at the increased dynamics, soundstage, and musicality, among other things, that an SUT brings. Even between my SUT's there is a difference.
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