Another azimuth question

Another azimuth question

Postby Johnny » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:41 am

I constantly hear on forums etc that if I change the cartridge vta, it will affect azimuth. Can someone please explain why this is so, because basic geometry would suggest otherwise?
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Mr_Putty » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:35 am

Johnny,
A change in VTA will not change azimuth if the stylus and cart are parallel to a straight arm, for example. But, if the cart is offset to the arm as most are, there will be a change in azimuth when an arm is raised or lowered relative to a flat record surface. A curved arm has the same affect.
Hope this helps.
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Brf » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:28 pm

Mr_Putty wrote:Johnny,
A change in VTA will not change azimuth if the stylus and cart are parallel to a straight arm, for example. But, if the cart is offset to the arm as most are, there will be a change in azimuth when an arm is raised or lowered relative to a flat record surface. A curved arm has the same affect.
Hope this helps.


+1. Mr Putty nailed....offset angle
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby 930turbo » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:56 pm

Hi,

So if one would adjust the VTA on the fly and settled in to the proper height , one should check the Azimuth again as well. Some audiophiles adjust the VTA depending on the weight/thickness of the record.

930
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Golear » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:09 pm

930turbo wrote:Hi,

So if one would adjust the VTA on the fly and settled in to the proper height , one should check the Azimuth again as well. Some audiophiles adjust the VTA depending on the weight/thickness of the record.

930


Good point. One would indeed need to do this iteratively, but only when establishing the right VTA/SRA for the cartridge during set-up. After that, all you have to do is set the cartridge to the same angle for the next LP. My cartridge likes being parallel to the LP. I set this for each LP by sight, then fine-tune by ear for the specific LP. Usually, the fine-tuning just needs a very small turn up or down from there.

It would be interesting to find out whether the improvement in sound when adjusting the height of the tonearm bearing is because of changes to the VTA/SRA, or because of changes to the azimuth! I had always wondered why a tiny change in bearing height might make an audible difference. After all, the LP is not absolutely flat and has small imperfections, too. And these could be of far greater magnitude than a change in the VTA/SRA fro a 1/4 turn change in bearing height. May be the improvement in sound is because one is making a bigger change to the azimuth? Or perhaps a combination of things.
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby 930turbo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:25 am

Hi Golear,

Thanks for the reply . How I wish that VTA can be a set and forget because once you move one parameter eg. by VTA a lot of factors are affected as well ( VTF, Azimuth, even probably overhang ? ) .

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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Golear » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:41 pm

I totally agree.

Alas, there are millions of LPs in existence and each LP is of a different thickness, was cut at a different angle, and at different groove depths. There's no guarantee that Side A and Side B of one LP were cut at the same angle. If the angle is easily adjustable, may be there's no guarantee that even that every track was cut at the same angle. Cartridges with elliptical styli are not as sensitive to VTA as ones with exotic profiles. And the "right" VTA (and other) settings may also depend on the sound system, the room acoustics, how well it was recorded/pressed and personal taste. So there may be no alternative to making the adjustment for each LP.

The height of the tonearm bearing is the only thing that can be adjusted, on the fly, for each LP. So... it's very good that changing tonearm bearing height moves multiple parameters into the "zone of sweetness" (as established during careful set-up). There's VTF, VTA/SRA, alignment, azimuth, and let's add anti-skate, too. Woo hoo!

I've been working on VTA for a while, and I've come up with a system that works very well for me. I set the initial VTA for an LP with a VTA gauge (of my design). This takes a few seconds and does not involve any eye squinting. Then I start the LP and sit down. As the music plays, I do fine adjustment (if required) from my chair, via my "remote controlled knob turner". With practice, I can do this without "hunting". Interested?

(Full disclosure: this is not being done behind VPI's back. I emailed HW, out of the blue, two years ago on this, and he was kind enough to respond. I wanted VPI to make a device and we threw out some ideas. But they had a very, very full plate - and they still do. I worked on it myself (with some new ideas) and contacted HW again, and we have continued the dialog.)
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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby 930turbo » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:08 pm

Hi Golear,

I think you posted a picture of the remote controlled VTA . I’ve done the 92 degree VTA/SRA setting and I occasionally try to adjust it a little up or down . But in the end I just listen to music and forget adjusting VTA for every record because since I was thinking all the parameters will move as well . It was much easy when I was listening to my vintage equipment it’s not that highly revealing .

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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Lewisranchmike » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:14 pm

Golear wrote:I totally agree.

Alas, there are millions of LPs in existence and each LP is of a different thickness, was cut at a different angle, and at different groove depths. There's no guarantee that Side A and Side B of one LP were cut at the same angle. If the angle is easily adjustable, may be there's no guarantee that even that every track was cut at the same angle. Cartridges with elliptical styli are not as sensitive to VTA as ones with exotic profiles. And the "right" VTA (and other) settings may also depend on the sound system, the room acoustics, how well it was recorded/pressed and personal taste. So there may be no alternative to making the adjustment for each LP.

The height of the tonearm bearing is the only thing that can be adjusted, on the fly, for each LP. So... it's very good that changing tonearm bearing height moves multiple parameters into the "zone of sweetness" (as established during careful set-up). There's VTF, VTA/SRA, alignment, azimuth, and let's add anti-skate, too. Woo hoo!

I've been working on VTA for a while, and I've come up with a system that works very well for me. I set the initial VTA for an LP with a VTA gauge (of my design). This takes a few seconds and does not involve any eye squinting. Then I start the LP and sit down. As the music plays, I do fine adjustment (if required) from my chair, via my "remote controlled knob turner". With practice, I can do this without "hunting". Interested?

(Full disclosure: this is not being done behind VPI's back. I emailed HW, out of the blue, two years ago on this, and he was kind enough to respond. I wanted VPI to make a device and we threw out some ideas. But they had a very, very full plate - and they still do. I worked on it myself (with some new ideas) and contacted HW again, and we have continued the dialog.)

Hello Golear, I am interested. I must have missed earlier post. What does your device look like that sets VTA with our squinting? :0)

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Re: Another azimuth question

Postby Optimationman » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:28 pm

I have just joined the VPI family, and have been adjusting my alignment for about a week. Using a Wallytractor, a vintage test record,
and limited experience, I hit what I feel, the sweet spot or close. I can certainly hear the effects of changes in the VTA, brighter to softer(stronger bass) within small vertical adjustments. I have wedged the cartridge slightly downward on the inside edge to get the cartridge/stylus parallel to the record surface.

The interesting change in the VTA is that it also seems to shift the soundstage to the right slightly when lowering the arm. Is this due to an azmith change? What do you experienced vinyl guys think and what parameter in my alignment might not be optimized?
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