Question regarding dual pivot kit

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby WntrMute » Wed May 17, 2017 6:44 pm

Harry wrote:This has literally turned into a DIY experiment, not that I object, I just would like you guys to get it use it and then play with it. You need to know what it is doing before moving on to the experimental phase.

The mirror finish and small point was chosen by sound, no theory was involved other than I know how these things are supposed to work and then tried them all. At this point this worked the best for us on three different systems we experimented with.

HW

I'll do as requested. Thanks HW.
User avatar
WntrMute
Senior Member
 
Posts: 498
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:42 pm

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby adeep42 » Thu May 18, 2017 1:21 pm

Finally got around to installing my Dual Pivot. Followed the instructions and NO problems. There is always the psychological upgrading issue that makes one feel that every mod makes everything better. I really can't say that the sound is noticeably better. It's certainly not worse. Best of all these wobbly old hands can cue again. Thanks Harry.
Prime #631
Symposium Footer Damping Inserts
Hide in the Sound Mat
Ortofon Cadenza Bronze
Bob's Devices VPI SUT
Bottlehead Eros PhonoPre
Phoenix Eagle & Tach
PrimaLuna Dialogue Premium Pre & Mono-blocks
Martin Logan Summit X's
Cambridge Audio 752BD
User avatar
adeep42
Senior Member
 
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:29 am
Location: Fort Lee, NJ

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby ccowan » Thu May 18, 2017 3:47 pm

I've seen that some folks don't seem to hear much if any sonic improvement with the dual pivot. That's weird to me I guess because I hear so much across-the-board improvement in the sound I'm getting with it, especially since I've learned to tweak the lateral side weight to adjust the amount of downforce on the 2nd pivot point. As someone else mentioned it also makes azimuth much easier to adjust. Without knowing what other folks' setup is, it's impossible to tell. My sincerest apologies to everyone for my terribly negative posts on this topic. I do not wish to offend or anger anyone. It will not happen again.
Clayton
VPI Prime Signature
Benz LP-S-MR
Coincident Statement Phono Preamp
Coincident Frankenstein 300B monoblocks
Coincident Partial Eclipse Mk. II speakers
Lampizator Level 4 DAC
MacBook Pro 2010 w/internal and external SSD
ccowan
Jr. Member
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:12 pm
Location: Gibbsboro, NJ

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Brf » Fri May 19, 2017 10:34 am

All none relevant and off topic post removed.
User avatar
Brf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2921
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Bill Stevenson » Fri May 19, 2017 3:32 pm

ccowan wrote:I've seen that some folks don't seem to hear much if any sonic improvement with the dual pivot. That's weird to me I guess because I hear so much across-the-board improvement in the sound I'm getting with it, especially since I've learned to tweak the lateral side weight to adjust the amount of downforce on the 2nd pivot point. As someone else mentioned it also makes azimuth much easier to adjust. Without knowing what other folks' setup is, it's impossible to tell....
Clayton


I agree with you that the sound improvement is really noticeable. From this forum over time I have learned about employing an HRX pulley and more belts on my Prime, about Audio Sensibility interconnects, and about the Stillpoints record weight to name a few. In each case, I discovered a worthwhile improvement. Thank you one and all, you have made a positive contribution to my life. My ears tell me subjectively that all of those improvements put together, however, are not equal to the Dual Pivot modification all by itself. It is necessary to play with it by adjusting the amount of downward force exerted by the second pivot on the glide plate. More force improves things up to a point beyond which there is a noticeable degradation. My suggestion for people who are not hearing a significant improvement is to play with it some more. From the initial position with the minimal force necessary to keep the second pivot on the glide plate through the entire arc of travel, increase the pressure in small increments and listen for a change, then add a wee bit more force, and then some more until you hear a degradation. At that point step it back to where it was before the degradation occurred. Or to use very scientific Scottish words, back it off a wee bit. This whole process requires patience and perhaps a bottle of good Bordeaux to help you relax and keep a steady hand. The end result should amaze. It took me about 3 hours total to reach the point where i sat back and relaxed with the final glass of wine.

Bill
Bill Stevenson
Member
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:49 pm

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Fri May 19, 2017 4:46 pm

Awesome Bill...My kits are on the way along with a Steel 12.7 for my ZERO. Can't wait to get them installed.
User avatar
Letsmakeadeal
Senior Member
 
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby kleinbje » Fri May 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Can anybody without adjustable side weights, who is using the counterintuitive to load the second pivot tell me how many boxes of force they are puting on the pivot, I have my counterweight slighter to the right of midline when viewed from the front, thus off loading the pivot, then about 2-3 large squares of counterintuitive force on the pivot. Curious what to listen for when adjusting the loading force on the second pivot. Interested to hear what you're using.

Jeff
kleinbje
Jr. Member
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:37 pm

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby fsonicsmith » Sat May 20, 2017 5:51 pm

I saw in another thread somewhere that someone was complaining about the rough finish on the clamp and lack of the referred-to-"enclosed" allen wrench from Elusive Disc. Well, I just opened my box from Elusive Disc and samr friggin thing. No enclosed allen wrench. Very annoying. I imagine it's the same tiny allen that comes with VPI tables and arms and I should have one somewhere but it's not cool.
fsonicsmith
Member
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:54 pm

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Johnny » Sat May 20, 2017 7:39 pm

fsonicsmith wrote:I saw in another thread somewhere that someone was complaining about the rough finish on the clamp and lack of the referred-to-"enclosed" allen wrench from Elusive Disc. Well, I just opened my box from Elusive Disc and samr friggin thing. No enclosed allen wrench. Very annoying. I imagine it's the same tiny allen that comes with VPI tables and arms and I should have one somewhere but it's not cool.


How's the fit and finish?
Johnny
Senior Member
 
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:26 am

Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby fsonicsmith » Sun May 21, 2017 12:41 pm

Johnny wrote:
fsonicsmith wrote:I saw in another thread somewhere that someone was complaining about the rough finish on the clamp and lack of the referred-to-"enclosed" allen wrench from Elusive Disc. Well, I just opened my box from Elusive Disc and samr friggin thing. No enclosed allen wrench. Very annoying. I imagine it's the same tiny allen that comes with VPI tables and arms and I should have one somewhere but it's not cool.


How's the fit and finish?


Not bad. But after seeing the two items in the bag you gotta scratch your head at the price. At $50 I would feel I over-paid. I love VPI but it is perplexing that they produce and sell incredibly good sounding, good looking, and well-made tables for such low prices and yet many of the accessories and spare parts (i.e. spare tonearms) are so high-priced. I fully expect to hear something about small quantities and economies of scale but again, I ain't buying that explanation. I know quite a bit about the bicycle business and I suspect this is no different. Complete bicycles get marked up by 10% and individual components by 50-100%. It's a business model that in the bicycle biz barely allows good brick and mortar shops to keep the doors open. VPI on the other hand is a manufacturer and I believe the vast majority of their products are purchased over the 'net from large outfits that have little overhead. So let me get back on point-this little CNC machined piece of steel and little adhesive sticker cost no more than $15 to produce. I sure hope I get $135 worth of sound improvement. I suppose too that for those that really enjoy three hours of figeting with mnor adjustments to re-dial in the sound, those folks are willingly/knowingly paying for that opportunity. I apologize for the curmudgeonly rant. I share much with Harry in terms of age, background, and personality :-)
fsonicsmith
Member
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:54 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Harry's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

x