Question regarding dual pivot kit

Re: Two kits for two arms?

Postby WntrMute » Tue May 16, 2017 1:07 pm

fsonicsmith wrote:
WntrMute wrote:
fsonicsmith wrote:I have two 3D arms for my Prime. Do I have to buy two dual pivot kits? This would mean two "skid pads" when I only need one. I just bought one kit and would prefer to just pay for the second tonearm clamp/contact point.


Really? Your kit costs thousands and each tonearm costs over a thousand dollars. You are worried about spending another $150.00 versus maybe one half that? Get a grip.


If you were worth my time, I would reply.

I guess an apology is in order. It just "steams" me when I see patrons at a nice restaurant leave a minimal tip or argue about a meaningless amount of a discrepancy on a bill. Refusing to leave a few bucks on the dresser in a nice hotel is another irritation. It makes no difference to them financially but makes a lot of difference to the waitress or housekeeper. I took it out on you as it seemed similar-not exactly the same as VPI is not in need of charity but I cannot understand your thought processes here.
I am sorry to have insulted you or to have hurt your feelings.
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby fsonicsmith » Tue May 16, 2017 5:22 pm

I guess an apology is in order. It just "steams" me when I see patrons at a nice restaurant leave a minimal tip or argue about a meaningless amount of a discrepancy on a bill. Refusing to leave a few bucks on the dresser in a nice hotel is another irritation. It makes no difference to them financially but makes a lot of difference to the waitress or housekeeper. I took it out on you as it seemed similar-not exactly the same as VPI is not in need of charity but I cannot understand your thought processes here.
I am sorry to have insulted you or to have hurt your feelings.


Apology accepted. My feelings were nowhere close to hurt. After reading many posts about the teflon "skid pad" (my term, all rights reserved) I imagined it to be more than BRF explained. I now see the error of my thinking. And yes, since my phono stage is a new Manley Steelhead, the $150 is relatively small but until I hear a change, I remain skeptical. Just idly curious-how do you know when others fail to leave "a few bucks on the dresser of a nice hotel"? Somehow you have my twisted mind thinking of John Goodman's character invading the room of John Turturro's in the Coen Bros' "Barton Fink". Then again, that was not exactly a nice hotel. I stayed at a nice hotel in Madrid once with my family and was scolded by the concierge not to leave tips for the housecleaning crew. Something about not setting expectations.
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby WntrMute » Tue May 16, 2017 5:48 pm

I guess I don't know for sure what my friends do but we sometimes let the conversation drift into discussing tipping and helping "panhandlers" out. Most of my close listening buddies are liberal both in thought as well as in their tipping practices. That guy or girl sitting on the entrance of the freeway in the freezing cold or in the blazing sun is not doing it to get over on us, the are really in a grim situation. I remember a few years ago when a celebrity said it was OK to go out to eat and only tip 10% if thats all you could afford. I was taken aback! Maybe one should eat at a cheaper place so one could leave a more reasonable tip. When one tips poorly whether for poor service or not, the tipper looks cheap and the service personnel thinks you are an ass. You don't teach them a lesson. Just my opinion of course, liberal that I am.
I will shut up about this now and hopefully forever as this is neither the time or place!
Anyway, you have an apology.
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Orchids1 » Tue May 16, 2017 6:49 pm

I live just outside NYC, where phony panhandlers are both rife and skilled. Nonetheless, I give money (sometimes, quite a bit) to people who seem in need. As Bruce Hornsby said, you don't have to question whether a person genuinely needs your help. You just have to look at them. However, in what way any of these sorts of considerations is relevant to anyone's thoughts on a dual pivot, I can't say. Rich
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby WntrMute » Tue May 16, 2017 7:35 pm

You are right. Totally off the subject. Merits no further discussion.
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Harry » Wed May 17, 2017 8:33 am

This has literally turned into a DIY experiment, not that I object, I just would like you guys to get it use it and then play with it. You need to know what it is doing before moving on to the experimental phase.

The mirror finish and small point was chosen by sound, no theory was involved other than I know how these things are supposed to work and then tried them all. At this point this worked the best for us on three different systems we experimented with.

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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Jim » Wed May 17, 2017 1:07 pm

One pleasant surprise I've encountered with the dual pivot is that dialing in azimuth by ear is so much easier. Before installing the DP I wasn't sure if I could legitimately hear a difference by adjusting the azimuth side screws. The problem for me was it was difficult to discern a convincing difference, perhaps because the tonearm would continue to rock back and forth on the unipivot. With the DP I could immediately hear a difference when arriving at the "sweet spot" as I made small adjustments with the dual pivot's contact screw. Thanks, Harry -- this simple device works really well!
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby ccowan » Wed May 17, 2017 2:45 pm

I love the dual pivot. It's awesome. Makes a great arm better. I'm literally in analog heaven with my Prime Signature. Thanks Harry!
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Ducky » Wed May 17, 2017 3:07 pm

OK, I have another dumb question:

If the 2nd pivot needs to be offset at the same angle as the headshell, wouldn't the azimuth weights on the bell housing also need to be offset at the same angle? If the tonearm moves up and down with a warped record, the tone arm wouldn't pivot on the same axial line that goes through the center of the weights and wouldn't that create uneven forces at the stylus? This stuff is enough to give me a headache thinking about it.... :?
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Re: Question regarding dual pivot kit

Postby Brf » Wed May 17, 2017 3:42 pm

Ducky wrote:OK, I have another dumb question:

If the 2nd pivot needs to be offset at the same angle as the headshell, wouldn't the azimuth weights on the bell housing also need to be offset at the same angle? If the tonearm moves up and down with a warped record, the tone arm wouldn't pivot on the same axial line that goes through the center of the weights and wouldn't that create uneven forces at the stylus? This stuff is enough to give me a headache thinking about it.... :?


The azimuth side weights are positioned to provide optimal equilibrium in the horizontal plan. By rotating the azimuth weights to be in-line with the cartridge offset would optimize equilibrium in the vertical plan when tracking an album but at the expense of the horizontal plane. Since the majority of albums are flat, it is deemed an acceptable compromise.
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