Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby Dorian » Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:28 pm

Agreed on the video, that made my Prime setup SO much easier. As they say, 'A [set of moving] picture[s] is worth a thousand [typed instructions]'.
VPI Prime | SoundSmith Zephyr MIMC Star | Parasound Halo JC3+ | Primaluna DiaLogue Premium Integrated | KEF LS-50s | Phoenix Eagle & Roadrunner | Stillpoints ULPI | Boston Audio Mat2 | Audio Sensibility Cables | Sound Anchor Stands
User avatar
Dorian
Senior Member
 
Posts: 542
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:14 pm
Location: Westchester, New York

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby JimTimP » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:46 pm

Evening all,

First hand experience with the installation. Some notes:

First, the set screw (grub screw, allen screw, etc) that holds the pivot to the arm is nylon. No marring, no worries. However (ever tell you how much I love the word 'however' - nother story), be careful not to over tighten this screw. You may strip the allen inbus making future changes difficult.

On my JWM 10 3D arm, I needed to mount this closer to the Azimuth weight. Which I feel is a good thing for keeping the arm mass in one place. If you place it too far back it may cause interference with the VTF weight. (see pic) This is especially true if you have a Soundsmith Counter Intuitive mounted.

Next, the shiny plate (glide plate, slider plate, whatever) gets mounted with either a small (1/8" or 3mm) gap between the boss with the pivot pin or none at all. You'll see how it fits right away (see pic below). You'll also notice it's about centered on the dogleg. You can easily re-position if needed put I can't say for how long until the adhesive sets. Now the reason for the gap is I noticed with this arm, the pivot was too close to the outside edge of the shiny plate for my liking.

Now, I can't do this as I am waiting on a new cartridge this week, and removed the Maestro from the arm. You don't need to unmount your cartridge to perform this install. You will need to check azimuth, VTF, VTA, well, everything except overhang after install. But also because I'm waiting on that new cart, I haven't set the pivot yet. I would wait until after every other parameter was set and checked before I ran the pivot screw down.

One other thing, the supplied allen wrench did work on the nylon screw but didn't fit the pivot screw. I have a good toolbox and used a 1.5mm allen driver. Since it was an allen driver and not the typical 90 degree bent wrench, I will have finer control when adjusting. Might consider this when buying (IMHO you should have a good set of these for other table adjustments in both metric and SAE sizes).

If you have any other questions, please ask away. I'll answer what I can...

Jim

GOPR0351[1].JPG
Pivot Point Mount
GOPR0351[1].JPG (1.84 MiB) Viewed 1098 times


GOPR0350[1].JPG
Shiny Plate Location
GOPR0350[1].JPG (1.91 MiB) Viewed 1098 times
Last edited by JimTimP on Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Teac X-2000R, Otari MX-5050 BIII-2, Yaqin MC-100B Amp, SD-32A CD, ProJect DS2 Pre, VPI Prime Sig W/Soundsmith Voice/Lyra Delos on 2 Arms, ADS, Periphery Clamp. Madisound Zaph ZRT 2.5 Speakers, Teac 2A Mixer and MB-20 Bridge, Nobsound Phone Amp,
User avatar
JimTimP
Senior Member
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:39 am
Location: S.W. New Hampshire

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby Johnny » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:21 pm

Sounds simple enough to install. Not sure what's with all the reservations about installation. Perhaps too long in the digital press and play world
Johnny
Senior Member
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:26 am

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby JimTimP » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:36 pm

Yup, Johnny, that's why I posted. It is a simple install. If you can turn a screwdriver, you can install it.

One other note or tip; I located where the shiny plate goes by laying it on the dogleg without removing the protective paper. It'll stay. I ran the arm over to where the stylus would be on the edge of the record and then moved it in to where it was tripping my "Little Fwend". I observed where the pivot point would be at both places before I made my decision where the final placement would be. Easy Peasy. Once I got it where I wanted it I made a quick mark with a grease pencil, peeled the paper from the adhesive (FWIW, my adhesive was protected by a whiteish paper (light gray actually) and the shiny side by a darker gray paper, as shown in the accompanying directions). You'll note in my picture, the shiny plate and the pivot is almost identically placed as the pictures in the directions. Not rocket science or even rocket surgery.
Teac X-2000R, Otari MX-5050 BIII-2, Yaqin MC-100B Amp, SD-32A CD, ProJect DS2 Pre, VPI Prime Sig W/Soundsmith Voice/Lyra Delos on 2 Arms, ADS, Periphery Clamp. Madisound Zaph ZRT 2.5 Speakers, Teac 2A Mixer and MB-20 Bridge, Nobsound Phone Amp,
User avatar
JimTimP
Senior Member
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:39 am
Location: S.W. New Hampshire

For me the question is:

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:06 pm

The question I have is not how to mount it mechanically (Simple), but is one of mounting location precision. If I understand the Physics of the 2nd pivot point, there is only 1 precise location that is correct. Any deviance from this could cause problems...

I am certainly willing to be educated on the subject, but just throwing the 2nd pivot on the arm without some way to align it with precision seems problematic to me???

What say you BRF? Harry?
Atma-Sphere MP-1 Mk 3.3, Pass X600.5 amps, Eminent Technology LFT VI speakers, Aerial SW 12 subs, True Sound Works Ultimate Apogee Divas, VPI HRX Reference (MagDrive/RimDrive), 12" 3DR tonearms, Miyajima Kansui & ZERO, VPI ADS, Vendetta SCP-1
Letsmakeadeal
Senior Member
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:42 pm

Re: Santa Baby! 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby thegage » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:17 pm

Johnny wrote:Sounds simple enough to install. Not sure what's with all the reservations about installation. Perhaps too long in the digital press and play world

I wrote instruction manuals for a dozen years. You wouldn't believe the number of times that things that seemed obvious were often misunderstood. I appreciate brf and others putting in their two cents to help, but it still would be nice to better understand how the designer/manufacturer intends it to be installed correctly.

John K.
TNT 3, 10" 3D arm, Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star, Classic Platter, VPI Ring, Stillpoints LPI, TerraCones feet, Phoenix Eagle/Roadrunner, Moon 310LP, Parasound JC2, SMc DNA 0.5, GE Triton 2+, Grover Empress cables, SRA and Symposium Platforms
thegage
Senior Member
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:41 am

Re: For me the question is:

Postby Brf » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:59 am

Letsmakeadeal wrote:The question I have is not how to mount it mechanically (Simple), but is one of mounting location precision. If I understand the Physics of the 2nd pivot point, there is only 1 precise location that is correct. Any deviance from this could cause problems...

I am certainly willing to be educated on the subject, but just throwing the 2nd pivot on the arm without some way to align it with precision seems problematic to me???

What say you BRF? Harry?


Letsmakeadeal, I posted my response on the optimal dual point positioning here. http://www.vpiforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8321&start=60
User avatar
Brf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2787
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby JimTimP » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:33 pm

Letsmakeadeal,

One thing to be considered and may influence your thought on this install is it is not a true pivot. More akin to an outrigger.

You would be correct if it were a true 'pivot'. There would only be one true and correct position for the 'pivot'. If placed and adjusted according to the document, it is a self supporting device and adds very little mass to the arm. But it will add some, and thereby change the resonance of the arm. I'm more concerned with additional drag placed on the stylus, and the resulting wear from that drag. It's why I intend on leaving a measured gap between the point of the 'pivot' and the shiny plate. .001" is what I have in mind. As the purpose of this device is to control side to side wobble of the arm, this would eliminate drag on the stylus while also dampening that wobble by transferring energy to the dogleg.
Teac X-2000R, Otari MX-5050 BIII-2, Yaqin MC-100B Amp, SD-32A CD, ProJect DS2 Pre, VPI Prime Sig W/Soundsmith Voice/Lyra Delos on 2 Arms, ADS, Periphery Clamp. Madisound Zaph ZRT 2.5 Speakers, Teac 2A Mixer and MB-20 Bridge, Nobsound Phone Amp,
User avatar
JimTimP
Senior Member
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:39 am
Location: S.W. New Hampshire

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby Brf » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:50 pm

JimTimP wrote:Letsmakeadeal,

One thing to be considered and may influence your thought on this install is it is not a true pivot. More akin to an outrigger.

You would be correct if it were a true 'pivot'. There would only be one true and correct position for the 'pivot'. If placed and adjusted according to the document, it is a self supporting device and adds very little mass to the arm. But it will add some, and thereby change the resonance of the arm. I'm more concerned with additional drag placed on the stylus, and the resulting wear from that drag. It's why I intend on leaving a measured gap between the point of the 'pivot' and the shiny plate. .001" is what I have in mind. As the purpose of this device is to control side to side wobble of the arm, this would eliminate drag on the stylus while also dampening that wobble by transferring energy to the dogleg.


JimTimP, the dual pivot is designed to be loaded and to anchor the tonearm to a single plane. If you leave a .001 gap between the pivot and skate plate, you are effectively negating the effects of the dual point. I would not be too concerned with the drag caused by a polished SS tip on a polished skate plate with less than 1/3 gram of force. Too prove my theory, engage the dual point and look for any cantilever deflection caused by drag, I doubt that it would be noticeable.
User avatar
Brf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2787
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am

Re: Santa Baby! re. 2nd pivot Mod Tweek

Postby JimTimP » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:36 pm

Thanks BRF. I'll experiment and see what's best. I just found out my Voice should ship tomorrow. From Peekskill to here is a couple hour drive so I think on Friday, I'll be waiting for the brown truck...
Teac X-2000R, Otari MX-5050 BIII-2, Yaqin MC-100B Amp, SD-32A CD, ProJect DS2 Pre, VPI Prime Sig W/Soundsmith Voice/Lyra Delos on 2 Arms, ADS, Periphery Clamp. Madisound Zaph ZRT 2.5 Speakers, Teac 2A Mixer and MB-20 Bridge, Nobsound Phone Amp,
User avatar
JimTimP
Senior Member
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:39 am
Location: S.W. New Hampshire

PreviousNext

Return to Harry's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests

x