ADS Owners Thread

Proposal

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Thu May 04, 2017 10:16 am

I was the originator of this thread and I have followed along since the very beginning. We seem to have started going around in circles here and I wish we could all step back, take a deep breath and remember that this is supposed to be fun. With your permission I would like to summarize where we are and propose that we all move on. The horses have all been beat to death here. For the record can we agree to the following:

The ADS is a great product that may in some environments exhibit some slight audible hum in very close proximity that is not perceptible from the listening chair and that has no negative affect on playback. If this condition is not met VPI or their dealer will remedy, replace or refund.

There are many ADS units in the field working as noted with very happy customers. For anyone that still has a noise issue with your ADS, your dealer or VPI will resolve.

Phoenix Engineering made great products as well that are no longer available for sale. Their technology design choices resulted in products that produced extremely accurate speed stability.

Isn't that about it?
Last edited by Letsmakeadeal on Thu May 04, 2017 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread

Postby spinblackcircle » Thu May 04, 2017 10:25 am

That's a good summary. All I really wanted was someone from VPI to tell me my ADS was running as designed or was defective. I've made my decision either way.
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Re: Proposal

Postby Dorian » Thu May 04, 2017 10:35 am

Letsmakeadeal wrote:Phoenix Engineering made great products as well that are no longer available for sale

Since I assume Bill will see this, can I ask why you are no longer selling your products Bill?
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Re: Proposal

Postby Phoenix Engineering » Thu May 04, 2017 10:54 am

Dorian wrote:Since I assume Bill will see this, can I ask why you are no longer selling your products Bill?


There's a long list of reasons, but it came down to this: It was starting to take up too much of my time and I didn't enjoy doing it anymore.
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Re: Proposal

Postby Phoenix Engineering » Thu May 04, 2017 11:04 am

Letsmakeadeal wrote:For the record can we agree to the following:

The ADS is a great product ....


I don't know that I'd agree with that statement. There's a long list of technical reasons I could cite, but I doubt anyone would care (or understand).

I thought Michael summed things up quite nicely:

MichaelBettinger wrote:I personally don’t see the need or advantage of speed control to three places right of the decimal point. If you do, don’t buy an ADS. The ADS design focuses on the dynamic demands that tracing the groove puts on the drive system. If you think this is all bull and means nothing, don’t buy an ADS. If you demand that your speed controller be dead quiet while standing in front of your equipment rack, only to turn the music on and have it becomes irrelevant, don’t buy an ADS.
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Re: Proposal

Postby Ayre Conditioned » Thu May 04, 2017 11:18 am

MichaelBettinger wrote:I personally don’t see the need or advantage of speed control to three places right of the decimal point. If you do, don’t buy an ADS. The ADS design focuses on the dynamic demands that tracing the groove puts on the drive system. If you think this is all bull and means nothing, don’t buy an ADS. If you demand that your speed controller be dead quiet while standing in front of your equipment rack, only to turn the music on and have it becomes irrelevant, don’t buy an ADS.
[/quote]

I'll have to admit that I was a little miffed by this also .
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Re: Proposal

Postby Dorian » Thu May 04, 2017 11:21 am

Phoenix Engineering wrote:There's a long list of reasons, but it came down to this: It was starting to take up too much of my time and I didn't enjoy doing it anymore.

Fair enough, can't argue with that.
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Re: Proposal

Postby glide » Thu May 04, 2017 11:32 am

If you demand that your speed controller be dead quiet while standing in front of your equipment rack, only to turn the music on and have it becomes irrelevant, don’t buy an ADS.


That said, the noise issue is real; we have had a small variability in the transformers and some have made it out the door. I can say that it was an honest oversight based on dropping our guard after the initial run of the ADS's. It took me some time to dial in where the problem stemmed from and to put additional screening in place to catch the errant units before final assembly, and we are confident that all current units are within the criteria I have spoken of before. I have developed test fixtures to screen the transformers prior to assembly.


Well now I'm really confused. Is the "fix" going to eliminate the noise or not?
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Re: Proposal

Postby MichaelBettinger » Thu May 04, 2017 12:19 pm

glide wrote:
If you demand that your speed controller be dead quiet while standing in front of your equipment rack, only to turn the music on and have it becomes irrelevant, don’t buy an ADS.


That said, the noise issue is real; we have had a small variability in the transformers and some have made it out the door. I can say that it was an honest oversight based on dropping our guard after the initial run of the ADS's. It took me some time to dial in where the problem stemmed from and to put additional screening in place to catch the errant units before final assembly, and we are confident that all current units are within the criteria I have spoken of before. I have developed test fixtures to screen the transformers prior to assembly.


Well now I'm really confused. Is the "fix" going to eliminate the noise or not?


The second quote is the description of my efforts to deal with the "small variability" from our transformer supplier. They have been successful.

The first quote was me acknowledging that the ADS may not be for everybody and the functionality of the Phoenix engineering products maybe better suited to some. Unfortunately I allowed a bit of mild sarcasm to exacerbate my comments. Nothing more or less. I will be more thoughtful of what I say in the future.

Regards, Mike
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Re: Proposal

Postby kalaur » Thu May 04, 2017 1:52 pm

MichaelBettinger wrote:The second quote is the description of my efforts to deal with the "small variability" from our transformer supplier. They have been successful.
Regards, Mike

While some variation in components is expected, I suspect a transformer hum issue could also be exaggerated by your mains voltage supply. If you live in an area with significant mains distortion, or a bit of DC offset on the AC line (can happen with improperly loaded phases upstream of your home), the hum could be considerably worse than someone else with cleaner mains voltage. Many switching power supplies only conduct at the peak and valley of the AC waveform, this eventually builds up to a bit of 'flat topping' or squaring off of the waveform. That will drastically increase noise from transformers, especially laminations on EI transformers.

To those of you experiencing hum with the ADS, is your ADS plugged directly into the wall, or into a power conditioner? Either way, try the opposite. Some power conditioners do a pretty good job of filtering DC off the mains which can lower transformer hum, but depending on the design they can actually cause noise due to other issues.

Another option to try is mechanically (not electrically) isolating the transformer from the chassis with rubber feet. Often the chassis essentially becomes a speaker with the vibrations from the transformer.

I don't own an ADS, so the above is just a speculation.
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