Record cleaning

Re: Record cleaning

Postby Packgrog » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Having come here from the diyaudio thread, I'm quite familiar with both sides.

First off, there doesn't seem to be any concrete evidence of 40khz machines causing damage with constant rotation, nor really any clear evidence of 40khz cleaning records better or worse than 60khz. The obvious benefits of higher frequency units is that their build quality seems to be more predictable/reliable, and the audible buzzing is less obnoxious and bothersome (my higher anxiety cat has slept comfortably next to my 60khz tanks when it's operating, whereas a 40khz tank may be annoying). 40khz may be more abrasive and effective of certain tough contaminants, while 60khz may be more effective at getting deeper into the groove.

I tend to err more on the side of caution with alcohols. Bbtfx has no issue using isopropyl, but recommends smaller concentrations, and is adamantly against ethyl alcohol. Unlike bbtfx, I have found that a rinse and vacuum is necessary for getting rid of the odd blob of whatever may have been dislodged but shifted and collected in one spot on the grooves (it's happened to me often enough that I'd taken to a post-ultrasonic scrub and rinse with a vacuum rcm even before I stumbled on this thread.

I did also discover that some albums that had cleaned up beautifully with just isopropyl and Photo-Flo in my tank, and cleaned again with AIVS No. 15 and distilled water afterward, were further improved by a TergiKleen dilution bath in the ultrasonic and another rinse. Different additives attack different contaminants. I have yet to try TergiKleen and Isopropyl together in the same bath with just distilled/reagent grade water rinses, but that's what's next on my to-try list. I don't want to use Photo-Flo again, but Tergitol works better and is safer for vinyl. I still can't bring myself to add isopropyl to my final rinse fluid.

Now, I'm neither a chemist nor a physicist. This is just my practical observations. Grain of salt, and all that. I always recommend trying for yourself. Just be careful with heat, and avoid too much isopropyl in the bath (2oz per gallon distilled water worked just fine for me).

All that said, if you can afford the AudioDesk, it would save you a LOT of time and effort. If you have a lot more time, then the diy route can save you a lot of money. I recently broke down and got a motorized rcm because I got sick of the extra effort involved with my KAB EV-1. I would not expect the AudioDesk to be better or worse at cleaning, just faster and less labor intensive. Go with what works with your wallet and your schedule.
VPI Scout Jr., Audio Technica AT33PTG/II, Phoenix Engineering Falcon w/ DIY Arduino Uno Tachometer, Audio Sensibility Impact SE Phono Cable, Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena
User avatar
Packgrog
Senior Member
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:37 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby Advanced101 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:15 am

My process is

1. Pre-clean with AI No.15 + HW-16.5
2. 4 min (2 rotations) in a 40 kHz US tank. Tank consist of filtered water, 2 oz. Iso Alcohol, 3 drops of Photo-Flo. Temp at 35C. I never re-use the solution. I clean about 6 records, one at a time then discard solution.
3. Let the records air dry, then hit them with a blast of canned air
4. Rinse with AI Ultra Pure water + HW-16.5
5. Hit the record with the Zerostat for a few seconds
5. Put them in a new Mofi record sleeve

Sounds like a lot of work but I clean around 6 records every Friday for the weekend. Takes me about 30 minutes.
Records quiet as a ...
VPI Avenger
Advanced101
Senior Member
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:01 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby davelarz » Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:09 pm

Thanks for your input packgrog. I'm curious - which 40khz machine are you using? And are you saying that you err on the side of caution with the isopropyl for flammability issues or in regards to preserving the vinyl?

Yes it is the wallet versus the time, isn't it? Buying an Audio Desk is financially doable for me but certainly not a throwaway, and though I am seduced by what seems to be the convenience (and quiet) of the operation, I'm concerned about the durability of the machine. So many documented problems with the first generation and so far the "pro" model hasn't been around long enough to see how long it will last. Bottom line - I think I'm willing to throw down over 3k for one of these things, but not if its going to have a shelf life of 2 or 3 years. Because it does seem like if I can get a DIY set-up working, well, there's a considerable investment of time initially but then it seems like cleaning 8 or so records in a half hour is doable. Considering my current vacuum regime takes me about 20 minutes just to do one, well, that's not bad.

I recently sent some records to Dave the record genie btw - going to see how they come back. He double cleans a record - Audio Desk then KL Audio - for $5 and you get a free MFSL sleeve with that deal. Not bad...
davelarz
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby dancinbert » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:26 pm

"I guess all I can ask is whether those of you using the 40KHZ Chinese machines (obviously attractive given the price) are still happy with them and whether they have proven durable and continue to give great results."

The heating part of my 40KHZ Chinese machine never worked. The ultrasonic seems to work fine. After collecting all of the DIY pieces it was too late to send it back. I have regrets that I did not invest in a better quality machine.
dancinbert
Senior Member
 
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:03 am
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana

Re: Record cleaning

Postby Packgrog » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:06 am

@davelarz I have a 60kHz machine, the Sonix IV ST136H. I got it for a steal a little over 2 years ago. I've still not been able to save records sold to me online that at visibly contaminated with mineral deposits (DO NOT RINSE WITH TAP WATER, KIDS!), but the improvements over vacuum RCM alone were wonderful. Not necessarily fewer clicks, but a clearer sound from an overall reduced noise floor. Not cheap, but definitely worth it. Between my DIY ultrasonic setup and my recently acquired motorized vacuum RCM, I'm about $1100+ invested. Kind of crazy thinking about it (though laughable compared to other people's investment), but it took time to get to that point.

Now, I have never used the AudioDesk, but the idea of being able to just plop a record in, hit a couple of buttons, and let it run and be done sounds EXTREMELY appealing compared to my tedious process. I'd originally gotten the ultrasonic to try to reduce the laboriousness, though in the end I just found that it worked better in conjunction with vacuum. Switching from the KAB EV-1 to a motorized RCM was another attempt to lessen the tedium, though I've barely gotten to use that yet.

But it you do prefer separate components to the AudioDesk, I would recommend spending the extra cash on the Vinyl Stack Ultra Spin Kit (direct from their website is cheaper than ebay). I saved money with my DIY rotation setup, but it's annoying to use. I really would have preferred to be able to leave the stand under the USM and just raise the records straight up to drip back into the tank, but my build didn't work out that way. The Vinyl Stack does that, while also allowing you to adjust the speed of the rotation.
VPI Scout Jr., Audio Technica AT33PTG/II, Phoenix Engineering Falcon w/ DIY Arduino Uno Tachometer, Audio Sensibility Impact SE Phono Cable, Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena
User avatar
Packgrog
Senior Member
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:37 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby davelarz » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:03 pm

You guys are making me REALLY think about the Audio Desk. Thanks for your input.
davelarz
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby jonathanb » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:23 pm

I prefer the KL Audio ultrasonic cleaner to the Audiodesk. It's a simpler machine, and more reliable.
User avatar
jonathanb
Senior Member
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:07 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby Drummer808 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:53 am

Hey, Rushton!

I was just thinking about flushing out my filtration system from time-to-time with Clorox and water to prevent stuff from growing in the system. Any thoughts?

Rushton wrote:Hi Drummer,

Congratulations on getting started with USC! With that Bayite pump, you should be able to use 3/8" fittings and tubing. These should do what you need:

Tubing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HE5DUQ/
Filter Canister with 3/8" ports (for 5"x2.5" filters): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0014C5D64/
Filter (1 micron, 5"x2.5" polyester): https://www.amazon.com/Hydronix-SDC-25- ... 00D049XFQ/
Fittings for Filter Canister (choose straight or elbow depending on how you envision setting this up):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AB5W25K/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AB5WYVC/
The price for the fittings seems to fluctuate wildly. This is the part you need but when I bought mine the cost was less than $1 each, now they've jumped to $3-4 each for no apparent reason. You might also check a local store or some other online sources. And, don't assume that the results Amazon first delivers to you are the only options available on Amazon. Do different searches to see what comes up.

You should also compare the costs of the 10" filters and canisters. They are more widely used and the price could be lower at a given time. You don't need the larger filter, it will simply divert more solution. That's why I stayed with the 5" canister.

Also, compare prices for differing sized ports on the canister. They come in both 3/8" and 1/2" ports. The mix of fittings you can find at a reasonable price may be a reason to shift to a different port size. I'd recommend staying with 3/8" ID tubing, however. Or even 1/4" tubing. The 1/2" tubing is just overkill.
Drummer808
Newbie
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:13 am

Re: Record cleaning

Postby Harry » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:51 pm

Just remember one thing guys, my basement has two USC machines lying there dead with a total retail price of almost $10K. My Chinese USC for $179.99 has cleaned over 3000 records and is still going strong with its Spin-Klean still working perfectly and 1 micron fish filter for $100.00 performing like new.

You do what you have to do but for me separating the project into its individual pieces works reliably, safely, and apparently forever!!

And let's not forget that Cyclone that has cleaned all those records and probably 3000 more just for general cleaning after the USC as they are being used for shows and personal use.

HW
Harry
Admin
 
Posts: 1084
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:38 pm

Re: Record cleaning

Postby davelarz » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:37 pm

I'm following the Rushton formula for cleaning solution - hepastat, tergitols, and isopropyl - in the exact concentration that he's laid out. I'm getting great results as far as the records go, but I feel like the fumes are giving me a headache. Anyone else have this issue? I don't have great ventilation in the room I have my rig in and the smell has a pretty intense chemical edge. Although it only seems to reach a certain density when the US machine is running. I have the Trusonik from eBay, seems to work fine although has trouble reaching a temp over 31. Wondering if the machine is offgassing as well, because it doesn't seem that hepastat/tergitol/isopropyl at that dilution should be giving me problems from inhalation. But something definitely is.
davelarz
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:23 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Harry's Corner

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

x