Lubrication opinion

Re: Lubrication opinion

Postby Mr_Putty » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:47 am

One last comment on Phantaslube, I think. I asked the seller if this would work on turntable bearings. Here is the reply: "Question: Will this work on slow moving shafts, like audio-turntable bearings and unipivot tonearm contact points?
Answer: It may prove a nice and effective light oil lubricant, but the lack of heat in the tribological contact will prevent the synthesis of the nanoparticles that polish away the asperities. But, there is no danger whatsoever in giving it a try as a simple lubricant for that application.
By Phantaslube SELLER on November 2, 2017"

So Phantaslube needs heat to do its magic. I don't know how VPI bearings are made, but it seems to me that the shaft and bearing could be heated (before final assembly) and spun together in a lapping mode to improve the final finish and performance. Mat are you reading this?
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Re: Lubrication opinion

Postby Brf » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:51 pm

Mr_Putty wrote:One last comment on Phantaslube, I think. I asked the seller if this would work on turntable bearings. Here is the reply: "Question: Will this work on slow moving shafts, like audio-turntable bearings and unipivot tonearm contact points?
Answer: It may prove a nice and effective light oil lubricant, but the lack of heat in the tribological contact will prevent the synthesis of the nanoparticles that polish away the asperities. But, there is no danger whatsoever in giving it a try as a simple lubricant for that application.
By Phantaslube SELLER on November 2, 2017"

So Phantaslube needs heat to do its magic. I don't know how VPI bearings are made, but it seems to me that the shaft and bearing could be heated (before final assembly) and spun together in a lapping mode to improve the final finish and performance. Mat are you reading this?


Other than giving you an unnecessarily overly technical response, the seller did you give you some insight as to what lubricant would work best with a turntable bearing. quote "there is no danger whatsoever in giving it a try as a simple lubricant for that application".

In addition, there is a big difference between the roles of the Nano-particle when used as a lubricant and used as a polish. Successful applications is dependent on the basics of the nanoparticles' mechanical properties, such as hardness and elastic modulus, interfacial adhesion and friction, movement law etc. Rarely is a Nano-lubricant a good Nano-polisher and vice-versa.

Turntable bearing simply don’t need Nano-particle level polishing due to their tolerance requirements and application. Nano-particle polishing is best kept in the manufacture of silicon wafers and other semiconductor substrates used for microchips.
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Re: Lubrication opinion

Postby madrac » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:27 am

Brf wrote:
Mr_Putty wrote:One last comment on Phantaslube, I think. I asked the seller if this would work on turntable bearings. Here is the reply: "Question: Will this work on slow moving shafts, like audio-turntable bearings and unipivot tonearm contact points?
Answer: It may prove a nice and effective light oil lubricant, but the lack of heat in the tribological contact will prevent the synthesis of the nanoparticles that polish away the asperities. But, there is no danger whatsoever in giving it a try as a simple lubricant for that application.
By Phantaslube SELLER on November 2, 2017"

So Phantaslube needs heat to do its magic. I don't know how VPI bearings are made, but it seems to me that the shaft and bearing could be heated (before final assembly) and spun together in a lapping mode to improve the final finish and performance. Mat are you reading this?


Other than giving you an unnecessarily overly technical response, the seller did you give you some insight as to what lubricant would work best with a turntable bearing. quote "there is no danger whatsoever in giving it a try as a simple lubricant for that application".

In addition, there is a big difference between the roles of the Nano-particle when used as a lubricant and used as a polish. Successful applications is dependent on the basics of the nanoparticles' mechanical properties, such as hardness and elastic modulus, interfacial adhesion and friction, movement law etc. Rarely is a Nano-lubricant a good Nano-polisher and vice-versa.

Turntable bearing simply don’t need Nano-particle level polishing due to their tolerance requirements and application. Nano-particle polishing is best kept in the manufacture of silicon wafers and other semiconductor substrates used for microchips.


I would assume VPI has manufacturing (or purchase specs for their supplier) specs (aside from the Rockwell hardness noted on the website) for their bearings - surface finish, roundness, etc.

I could see a nano-polishing fluid being used in a manufacturing process... eg. where the duration of application (eg polishing) is tightly controlled. But it makes no sense to add a lubricant which polishes to an operating machine -- be it a turntable, transmission, engine. Does it magically stop polishing once the asperities are gone -- I don't think so. One of the primary functions of a lubricant is to prevent wear. Machines are designed with certain clearances for which the lubricant's viscosity is specified. The oil (or grease) film keeps the surfaces separated under operation, thus keeping the metal surfaces apart (hydrodynamic lubrication). At start up - or if speed gets too low or load too high - there is the possibility for boundary (or mixed) lubrication, where the asperities may come in contact. But, lubricants contain additives to minimize or prevent this wear. Many additives form surface films on the metal parts, which would wear away (and then be replenished) before actual metal to metal wear occurs.

The claim in an earlier post that they saw 25% fuel economy improvement in a lorry with this product sounds like bullshit to me. One might see 1-2% improvement going from a thick oil to a thin oil. If this product provided that much fuel economy improvement, every auto and truck manufacturer in the world would likely be using it to meet government imposed fuel economy and/or emissions requirements to avoid paying penalties (eg CAFE in the US)
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