Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby elader » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:19 am

We need a lending library for the feckert.

security deposit of purchase price, rental price of $35 for a week.

I'd like to be the first to sign up.
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby JimTimP » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:35 am

Letsmakeadeal wrote:
Ok Jim - You have successfully peaked my curiosity...I hear that sucking sound (out of my wallet) for more toys....Since you have already done the homework on the equipment, are these interfaces the ones most recommended to feed the software?

Any idea if the SoundBlaster external USB Soundcard that is used with the Adjust+ will work here? There is a microphone in on it?


You can see in the OP what I got. The Mic list for $80 and the Interface for $130. The mic needs 15 to 48 VDC Phantom power, so if the Mic Input on the Sound Blaster provides it, you're all set. The Mic is one of those called out specifically in the software manual. I did not know this to begin with, but Dayton Audio has a version of the Mic with a USB interface built in, so that should be all you need for $120. The key is a calibrated mic, with a calibration curve file. That file gets loaded into the software.

The software is free to download. Just google REW Audio and you'll find it. There are versions for all OS's (Win, OSX, Linux), so in this regard it's more versatile than Feickert.

One other thing I suggest is to get a cheap boom mic stand. I think I got mine for like $20 off Amazon. My plan is to position the mic at my favored listening position.

So, you could be up and running with this for the price of the 2nd tonearm pivot. Just, the mic will weigh more... ;)

Mic: http://www.daytonaudio.com/index.php/te ... ement.html

REW: https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:56 pm

Thanks Jim - I am going to start the due diligence process...I noticed that there are several YouTube tutorials that I am going to check out...
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby edw » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:51 pm

Monty Hall,

It's been almost 10 years since I dialed in my SW but a few things come to mind.

1. It did take a while to find the sweet spot for the location, of course subject to room layout and WAF. For me, it ended up being near a corner next to the left mains speaker, but about 1.5' and 2.5' from the side and rear walls so the SW was taut and not boomy. I also tried to keep the SW's line-of-site distance to my listening position the same line-of-site distance as my mains. I also tried to minimize the room-based peaks in the LF response with mic and software node calculations. Yeah, moving a 200lb SW is not fun. Also, my SW (JL Audio F112) has a basic room EQ function to remove the largest LF peak; it works well.

2. The two things that took a while to dial in was how best to mesh the natural LF rolloff of the mains with the SW and the proper polarity/phase for the SW. As to the first issue, I gave up! It sounded fine but I went with an active crossover (I already had an active crossovers for the mains too). So, I'm not using the crossover built into the SW. Currently, the woofer of the mains and the SW use a Linkwitz-Riley LR4 crossover network at about 68Hz. Given the low crossover point, there is no localization of the SW. Plus, the SW just provides that "touch" of weight when present in the music and doesn't sound boomy like as often is the case with HT. As to the second issue, when you get the phase correct by playing music and dialing the angle in, the LF from the SW eventually snapped into place with the LF from the mains. It's an interesting feeling where the transition and feeling of the LF seem seamless.

3. I did take measurements, rearranged some furniture, etc., to get the room as flat frequency-wise as I could get. Then I listened to a lot of familiar music. I mean a lot and at different volumes. Over the course of about 2-3 months, I realized that a flat FR in my room to my ears sounded a tad flat or lifeless in the LF. I actually preferred a bit of a LF boost (about 2-4db) in the 30-40Hz range. While live versus recorded is like comparing apples to oranges, most venues where I Iisten - Jazz, Rock, Classical, Opera, I felt (and heard) more of the LF than with a flat FR in my room. That was what I was searching for. So I dialed in the settings to suit. That took more time. It's interesting because when I discussed this with some other audiophiles, some said the same thing. They also liked a bit more of a weighty feeling in the LF response. Metering a flat FR is one thing, but getting it to sound similar to what you like and feel is another.

4. I don't want to even think about how I could have dialed things in without a mic, meters, and software. At that time, I used True RTA software as well as other hardware and meters. Very handy tools.
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby JimTimP » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:43 am

Thanks Ed,

The SW's I built are small (10") and relatively low powered (250 Watts Peak). They are also sealed to decrease the boom and over extension. It's a small room. (pictures in the General Chat forum, subwoofer thread).

I did a casual scan of the room last night just to assure all is working as I anticipate and to continue to learn the software. Showed I have substantial ringing in the lower registers in the room with decay times off the chart (which was set to 500ms). Something for me to think about.

Anyway, for me at least, this is the next step on the audio odyssey.
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby JimTimP » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:13 pm

Well, did am initial sweep. I guess I gotta get better at analyzing the charts, because if I understand things correctly, I'm done!

Here's the bass portion in a 'waterfall' display. Now this shows signal strength by frequency and time (it's a 3D chart). As I understand it, you want the sweep as even as possible on the top, and the decay times (so that portion coming toward you) to also be as even as possible without anything over running the front of the chart (on this one the far left):

Initial Waterfall.jpg
Initial Bass Spectrum Waterfall
Initial Waterfall.jpg (119.24 KiB) Viewed 235 times


Now, I do have some modal issues on the lowest portion of the chart. But nothing major. (At the bottom of this post, I'll include the full spectrum)

So, I took a look at the full spectrum of the room. Should be as close to flat as possible.

Initial Spectrum.jpg
Initial Spectrum.jpg (84.61 KiB) Viewed 234 times


Uhm, OK.

So, I guess I gotta dig deeper into the analysis part. As this looks OK (and to be honest, it sounds really good) to me. Maybe someone with some more knowledge on these things can comment?

Initial Waterfall Full Spectrum.jpg
Initial Waterfall Full Spectrum.jpg (120.91 KiB) Viewed 235 times


Initial Decay.jpg
Decay or Ringing (Reflections) results
Initial Decay.jpg (72.67 KiB) Viewed 236 times
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby edw » Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:42 pm

I wish I had software that did waterfall time-based plots when I was integrating the SW. That's nice stuff!

I assume you're measuring at 1m from the front of each speaker, or perhaps at your listening position - or perhaps you're measuring both and assessing accuracy as between speaker and listening position? Also, I would want to know the sampling rate you're measuring. As I'm sure you know, typically, you can increase (or decrease) smoothing with decreased (or increased) sampling rate. Sometimes too much sampling is not a good thing (and one sample will make it ruler flat!). I needed to find a happy medium with measuring as it sometimes got frustrating. It would also be good to know the drivers and the crossover frequencies between each of them to see their interactions.

From the waterfalls, it seems like you have a live/reflective room in the bass and midbase (or something is rattling) and that the HF from 2.5kHz to 20kHz slopes down 10.5dB? Is that similar to your experience?
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:53 pm

Just ordered a mic. Diving in the deep end. Looking forward to the learning process. :D
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Re: Feickert is Great - But this is Intimidating!

Postby JimTimP » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:14 pm

Ed,

Sample rate was set to the max for the interface 192 KHz. You make a good point.

Can't find a rattle, but am curious on how you see one in the charts.

I am waiting on some GIK bass traps for the corners behind the speakers.

Like I said, this was an intial sweep. At this point, I'm not sure the 5 dB rolloff isn't from the amp or the room or the speakers (check the chart, grid is 5dB). Mic was at the listening position only.

Baby steps. This process is going to take time. I know and accept that. And I may never get it perfect. But I'm shooting for better.

LMaD,

Its a fun trip. From what I have been able to find, GIK is the source for room treatments, followed by ATS. I do like the ATS wall treatments (panels) better. None of it is cheap!
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