Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby plantboy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:42 pm

Hi Everyone,

My 2M Bronze cart has a 5mV output. This means it would ideally be matched to a phono with 46db gain.

My phono (Rega Fono) gives 41 db gain.

I want to consider the Pro-Ject Tube Box DS. It has gain settings of 40, 50, and 60 to choose from. I'm not sure if 40 is too low vs. what I have now, or if 50 would be too high.

I listen to all kinds of music, but I value soundstage and dynamic range very much, if that helps the decision at all.

Thoughts? I wanted a phono stage to grow in to with a different cartridge later, but I also have to live with it for now. And I love the sound of the tubes from this kind of phono, although I've only heard it with a different cart that had ~4mV output.

Thanks!
Scout 1.1; Ortofon 2M Bronze; Rega Fono; Peachtree Audio Nova; Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables; Magnepan MG12;
plantboy
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby Gshepardbuster » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:25 pm

I'm using a Rega Fono with an AT150 Audio Technica cart. I believe the output is 4.1 mv but it sounds very good to my ears. The TT is a Technics SL 1200. IMO the Rega Fono is a solid MM pre.
Gshepardbuster
Member
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:09 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby plantboy » Thu Jun 01, 2017 7:30 pm

I agree, the Rega Fono is very nice. My problem is that I watched a video of a record rip on you tube and then bought the record, but found I preferred the sound of the you tube record rip. Looking in to it more, I discovered the phono stage in use, as well as cart. Strangely enough it is your cart that's in use in the clip, so that is the other major variable.
Scout 1.1; Ortofon 2M Bronze; Rega Fono; Peachtree Audio Nova; Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables; Magnepan MG12;
plantboy
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby Gshepardbuster » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:16 pm

Ok that makes sense, too many variables with this crazy hobby. I did have a 2M Bronze at one time and ended up with a 2M Black. I prefer the AT 150 over the 2M Bronze but the 2M Black is better to me than the AT 150.
Gshepardbuster
Member
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:09 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby Mikeknj » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:01 pm

I have a SoundSmith Zephyr with a 2.12 mv output and I only use a gain of 40. Peter's moving magnet phone stages are 43 gain. I think 46 is more then enough. When I change to 45 db the system seems over loaded.
Mikeknj
Member
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: NJ USA

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby plantboy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:58 am

Gshepardbuster wrote:Ok that makes sense, too many variables with this crazy hobby. I did have a 2M Bronze at one time and ended up with a 2M Black. I prefer the AT 150 over the 2M Bronze but the 2M Black is better to me than the AT 150.


Thanks for the comments on black vs. AT 150. I am sure someone else would say the opposite, which goes to show there are infinite combinations of gear, as well as personal preferences. I need to keep this in mind and make educated decisions about a purchase, but then to just sit back and enjoy, and from that experience see where to go next. That's part of the fun!

I've been hesitant to get th 2M black stylus bc I wondered if it is too similar to the Bronze, but it sounds like you disagree? What difference did you notice with Bronze vs black?
Scout 1.1; Ortofon 2M Bronze; Rega Fono; Peachtree Audio Nova; Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables; Magnepan MG12;
plantboy
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby plantboy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:21 am

Maybe what would be nice is a thread where people could reply with what they found to be great matches in the following:

- cartridge name
- cartridge output in MV
- phono stage name
- gain setting used on phono stage (or the gain of the phono if no setting)

Does anyone know if such a list already exists?
Scout 1.1; Ortofon 2M Bronze; Rega Fono; Peachtree Audio Nova; Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables; Magnepan MG12;
plantboy
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby Brf » Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:45 am

plantboy wrote:Maybe what would be nice is a thread where people could reply with what they found to be great matches in the following:

- cartridge name
- cartridge output in MV
- phono stage name
- gain setting used on phono stage (or the gain of the phono if no setting)

Does anyone know if such a list already exists?


I am not aware of any list, but gain requirements can be easily calculated and MC loading can be approximated. When matching a cartridge to a phono stage, you will need know both the gain of your preamp and input sensitivity of your amplifier to calculate the total gain required. I can have the exact same cartridge and phono stage as the next guy, but have completely different results with respect to the compatibility of the cartridge/phono stage in my system.
User avatar
Brf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby Spsesq » Fri Jun 02, 2017 10:25 am

Here is what I have to start a list:


Cartridge Name: Ortofon 2M Black
Cartridge output: 5mv
Amplifier: Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum (I)
Amplifier Phono stage gain: 44 db

Steve
VPI 2017 Prime Scout
Ortofon 2M Black
Eagle PSU/Roadrunner tachometer
Rogue Audio Cronos Magnum II Amp.
BlueSound Vault
Harmon Kardan TD262 tape deck
Sony SCD-CE595 SACD/CD player
Schiit Vali 2 headphone amp
KEF LS50 speakers
Grado RS1e Headphones
Spsesq
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 12:53 am

Re: Phono Stage / Cartridge Matching

Postby plantboy » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:03 pm

Brf wrote:I am not aware of any list, but gain requirements can be easily calculated and MC loading can be approximated. When matching a cartridge to a phono stage, you will need know both the gain of your preamp and input sensitivity of your amplifier to calculate the total gain required. I can have the exact same cartridge and phono stage as the next guy, but have completely different results with respect to the compatibility of the cartridge/phono stage in my system.


Thanks for the info. This shows my inexperience in electronics for sure, and the need to go with recommendations from credible sources.

This article makes some assumptions about the preamp and amp, and if I follow their formula, my cartridge with 5 mV output requires 46 dB gain.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/article ... ge-gain-1/

If I follow this link's calculator, my 5 mV cartridge requires 36 dB gain. I also appreciate their chart of typical gain values, as those ranges may be helpful to a novice in such things.
https://www.kabusa.com/pregain.htm

It seems like unless you work through a good dealer for advice, or you really know what you are doing, you are in some way taking a chance, as the above two estimates are pretty far apart.

The Tube Box DS manual gives the 2M Red as an example setting, so I'm thinking they had the 2M line in mind when designing this, but I will probably call the dealer before ordering just to be sure.

Thanks all for the discussion!
Scout 1.1; Ortofon 2M Bronze; Rega Fono; Peachtree Audio Nova; Chord Odyssey 2 speaker cables; Magnepan MG12;
plantboy
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:38 am

Next

Return to General Audio

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

x