SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby spinblackcircle » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:54 pm

sturgus wrote:
Jazzgene wrote:Getting an itch to try a SUT on my Miyajima Kansui. Anyone have opinions yay or nay on SUTs vs solid state active phono preamps? for example, like the RCM Sensor 2? Or Sutherland Duo vs Miyajima KSW SUT.

So far everyone is giving you good advice. I will make a suggestion, join the Graham Slee forum and borrow the XP Elevator and try it in your system. I have an K&K SUT and also the Elevator. In my system the Slee Elevator is better. Not that the K&K is bad it just has less detail. You can check out the Slee stuff for the price of shipping. Usually around $25 to $30 bucks and you test it in your system for about 2 weeks. It would be nice if you could have a few different peices at the same time to try out. Maybe some other manufacturers offer a free trial. Good luck in quest.
Let us know what you decide. I hope to try a Bob's Devices SUT one day. Lots of happy customers.
Sturgus


Good advice, I just sent back the Accession through the loaner program. There's nothing better than having a piece of equipment in your own system.
VPI Prime/Grado Reference Master, VPI 16.5 RCM, Audio Research LP1, Audio Research VSI60, Martin Logan Electromotion ESL, ClearDay and Audio Sensibility Cables
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:44 pm

I also have a Kansui on the 12" 3DR tonearm. I tried what is supposed to be one of the best SUTs on the market going into my Atma-Sphere MP-1....With the 3.2 version of the MP-1 there was not enough gain (lots of tube rush and hash at higher listening volume) to fully realize the potential of the Kansui straight in. I purchased a Coincident Signature SUT and tried to like it. IN my setup and environment, no matter what I did (loading/Gain wiring, you name it), there was some bit of residual hum/noise & flatness to the sound (in other systems I am sure the Coincident is spectacular). This was as irritating to me as the lack of gain going straight into the preamp. So, I sold the Coincident and sent my MP1 to Ralph for the 3.3 upgrade that focused on phono stage gain and noise reduction....It was totally worth it and I am now very happy with the Kansui (straight in)and no SUT.....

If you have a phono stage with enough gain I think that is the way to go based on my admittedly limited SUT experience...IMHO
Last edited by Letsmakeadeal on Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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sidenote: ATTENTION Miyajima Owners

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:56 pm

If you have a medium/low mass tonearm like our 3Ds and want the most from your Miyajima cartridges, I find this item to be spectacular. I have them on both my Kansui and ZERO and feel the overall sound is more solid and fleshed out...Side benefit is that you get threaded top-plates that makes cartridge mounting and alignment a thousand times easier...Highly recommended FWIW :D

Only downside is that it permanently mounts to the cartridge which for me is not a bad thing...I plan to totally wear them out....

ISOkinetik CARTRIDGE STABILISER FOR DENON 103 , DL-103R & other high end MC cartridges - ALU COLOUR 3.3 gram
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Pevo » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:35 pm

Letsmakesdeal, interesting you should post the headshell weight. I recently purchased, but have not installed yet, a 3 gram VPI headshell weight for use with a Shelter 901. Not sure how it will change the sound, but it was only $15 from Elusive Disc and does not require gluing to the cartridge. I would presume the IsoKinetic weight requires gluing to remove a possible resonant point, but I wonder how much difference it makes.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Jazzgene » Sun Sep 18, 2016 4:15 pm

I found the VPI stainless steel weight to still be slightly magnetic. So I did not use it. I'll have to check out ISOkinetik. When I asked Mr. Miyajima, he said he makes his weights from lead and if possible, not to use any ferrous weights.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:48 pm

The ISO is aluminum so no worries about magnetism issues. They also have a heavier version made of brass but I think 3.3 grams is perfect for our purpose. It is intended to be affixed to the cartridge in a rather permanent way with what I think may be the best cyanoacrylate (instant) adhesive I have ever used. They do make a release agent if you ever had to remove it but I have not tried it. That said, you could use it without the glue but it would be even harder to align everything properly. What I like the most (aside from sonic improvements) about the ISO is no more fiddling with microscopic nuts and bolts....
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Jazzgene » Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:07 pm

A bit hesitant about the glue. What makes it harder to align with out the glue than any other weights? I may go that route or find a brass or aluminum 3 gram weight.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:16 pm

The ISO plate is threaded so mounting your cartridge when glued to it becomes just like any other top mount cartridge (Lyra as example) screw from the top of the arm into the top of the cartridge / no nuts req'd). To use it without gluing it you would have to basically mount the plate to the arm and then attach the cartridge under it with the tiny nuts...Trying to do that and making the tiny alignment adjustments strikes me as pretty much impossible...Alternatively you could just drill out the holes and mount it the same way as the VPI weight ...But, if you were going that route you may just as well buy some small aluminum plates and make them yourself...
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Jazzgene » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:35 pm

After calculating the effective mass for the 10 3D arm and the Kansui, the numbers don't require additional weight. However, can you let me know what increase in performance you hear in the Kansui with the ISO plate?
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Letsmakeadeal » Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:47 pm

I understand that the math works but at Harry's suggestion I tried it and I liked it. More solid and tuneful low end. Thats it 8-)
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