SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby jmcox » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:34 am

Hi -

I also have a Manley Chinook that I'm using in conjunction with a couple MC carts. Did you find the performance better fed into an SUT then in turn into the 47K load/45db gain the Chinook as opposed to feeding the MC signal directly into the Chinook and utilizing the MC 60db gain of the Chinook? Right now I'm using the Chinook to step up the gain . . . .(??). Improvement with the SUT for gain?
VPI Avenger/Transfiguration Proteus, VAS Nova Gold .25, VAS .30 MONO/Ring Clamp/SDS/EAR MC4 SUT/Manley Chinook SE phono/Primaluna Dialogue Premium preamp/McIntosh MC 40 mono blocks/Ampsandsound Cornscallas/Kimber Select all cables, Furman Reference 15i
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby tom collins » Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:12 am

here is my take. i use the very adjustable musical surroundings nova 2. i just conducted a several week comparison. i use a lyra delos. the delos is slightly high output for an mc, so not using the step up allowed custom tailoring of the gain. i used 52db instead of the customary 60db so i could have the volume knob on the pre in a more normal place instead of 8 or 9 o'clock. also, the load is very adjustable and i settled at around 180 ohms. the music sounded very good. since the nova 2 is battery powered, noise or hum have never been an issue in either configuration. my only complaint was that dynamically, i thought it was constrained. when the sut, which is made from some ancient mic transformers was reinserted, the settings were placed at 40db and 47k ohms. the largest difference i noticed was dynamic. the dynamics were greater. also, the tonal colors were a little more fleshed out, not huge, but noticed. I have settled on leaving the sut in the system.
i hope this input is helpful to you. also, you will need to use very good interconnects between the sut and phonopre.
TNT6HR, rim drive, superplat, outer ring + center weight, 12.0 arm, base and 12.7 armwand, SDS, SRA platform; Delos, Zu, Grado ME+ carts; Musical Surroundings Nova 2, custom SUT; Cary 30i prototype EL34 integrated amp; Devore Gibbon 8 speakers; PSB sub.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Jazzgene » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:27 pm

Thanks for your reply. I'll look into it. Possibly even build one.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Advanced101 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:35 pm

Jazzgene wrote:Thanks for your reply. I'll look into it. Possibly even build one.


If you are into DIY let me throw this out there:

http://www.kandkaudio.com/moving-coil-p ... p-up-kits/

Kevin is great to deal with, his SUTs get great reviews, price ranges from a few hundred to a couple thousand. He uses Lundahl transformers which are highly regarded.

I had his preamp with Silver wound transformers.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Lewisranchmike » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:07 pm

jmcox wrote:Hi -

I also have a Manley Chinook that I'm using in conjunction with a couple MC carts. Did you find the performance better fed into an SUT then in turn into the 47K load/45db gain the Chinook as opposed to feeding the MC signal directly into the Chinook and utilizing the MC 60db gain of the Chinook? Right now I'm using the Chinook to step up the gain . . . .(??). Improvement with the SUT for gain?


DEFINITLY noticble improvement going thru Bob's SUT to MM input 47k/45dB. That is the way to go:0)

Best,

Mike in Austin
VPI PRIME, VAS Nova Gold, TerraStone Footers, Symposium Seque Iso, Stillpoints LPI, VPI Periphery Ring, Eagle PSU, Roadrunner Tach, Audio Sensibility Statement, ARC Ref Phono 2SE, ARC Ref 5SE, McIntosh MC252, KimberKable 8TC, Vandersteen 3A Sig
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Lewisranchmike » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:11 pm

jmcox wrote:Hi -

I also have a Manley Chinook that I'm using in conjunction with a couple MC carts. Did you find the performance better fed into an SUT then in turn into the 47K load/45db gain the Chinook as opposed to feeding the MC signal directly into the Chinook and utilizing the MC 60db gain of the Chinook? Right now I'm using the Chinook to step up the gain . . . .(??). Improvement with the SUT for gain?


Another comment, you have to watch your gain, Bob has few choices, I do not remember if I ended up with Sky CineMag or 1131. I went thru a couple bit Bob was very helpful via Email. DEFINITLY more detail retrival wit SUT.

Best,

Mike
VPI PRIME, VAS Nova Gold, TerraStone Footers, Symposium Seque Iso, Stillpoints LPI, VPI Periphery Ring, Eagle PSU, Roadrunner Tach, Audio Sensibility Statement, ARC Ref Phono 2SE, ARC Ref 5SE, McIntosh MC252, KimberKable 8TC, Vandersteen 3A Sig
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby jmcox » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:47 am

As a followup, I spoke to Bob (very helpful) and he says that my .8mv Nova would need to match with a 1:10 but my Paradox Pulse 103R at .32mv would need to pair with a 1:40 - so I'm out of luck at the moment as at this time I am wanting to run them both (I have two arms) and he doesn't have a unit that hits both of these settings.
VPI Avenger/Transfiguration Proteus, VAS Nova Gold .25, VAS .30 MONO/Ring Clamp/SDS/EAR MC4 SUT/Manley Chinook SE phono/Primaluna Dialogue Premium preamp/McIntosh MC 40 mono blocks/Ampsandsound Cornscallas/Kimber Select all cables, Furman Reference 15i
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby rif » Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:46 pm

I don't know if its in the same league you're all discussing, but I use a k&k SUT.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby sturgus » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:09 pm

Jazzgene wrote:Getting an itch to try a SUT on my Miyajima Kansui. Anyone have opinions yay or nay on SUTs vs solid state active phono preamps? for example, like the RCM Sensor 2? Or Sutherland Duo vs Miyajima KSW SUT.

So far everyone is giving you good advice. I will make a suggestion, join the Graham Slee forum and borrow the XP Elevator and try it in your system. I have an K&K SUT and also the Elevator. In my system the Slee Elevator is better. Not that the K&K is bad it just has less detail. You can check out the Slee stuff for the price of shipping. Usually around $25 to $30 bucks and you test it in your system for about 2 weeks. It would be nice if you could have a few different peices at the same time to try out. Maybe some other manufacturers offer a free trial. Good luck in quest.
Let us know what you decide. I hope to try a Bob's Devices SUT one day. Lots of happy customers.
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Re: SUT or SS LOMC preamp

Postby Jazzgene » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:29 pm

I'll check out Graham Slee. Thanks for the reply. I have some experience with K&K. Not for SUTs but I've purchased transformers from Kevin to make an interface going from balanced to single ended. Lundahl sounded pretty good with my build but not so much using their already built units.
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