Matching carts with SUT options

Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby Bob » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:01 am

This is Bob from Bob's Devices. In addition to various step up ratios, there are wide variations in quality in step up transformers. Additionally, there are wide variations in quality of CineMag transformers. It is like saying that all vehicles made by general motors are the same. The Bob's Devices SKY SUT was rated in the A category of Stereophile's top 500 components along with several VPI turntables. You are welcome to call me or email me with any specific questions about matching. I will tell you that several folks with Chinook Phono stages are already using SKY SUTs' with them. My cell phone number is 910-612-8666
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby Dorian » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:43 am

edw wrote:Correct. Will let you know how it works with the VTPH-2a in a few weeks.

Great thanks, I didnt know you also had a VTPH-2a. Amazing phono stage.

I'm curious because I am currently running a high output cart into the MM inputs while my low output cart is being repaired. I much prefer the sound of the low output cart into the MC inputs, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the carts vs the Herron's different inputs.
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby jonathanb » Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:27 pm

Dorian wrote:I'm curious because I am currently running a high output cart into the MM inputs while my low output cart is being repaired. I much prefer the sound of the low output cart into the MC inputs, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the carts vs the Herron's different inputs.


I suspect that most of the difference is due to the cartridges: the MIMC Star is simply a better sounding cartridge than the Zephyr II.
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby edw » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:18 pm

Dorian wrote:
edw wrote:Correct. Will let you know how it works with the VTPH-2a in a few weeks.

Great thanks, I didnt know you also had a VTPH-2a. Amazing phono stage.

I'm curious because I am currently running a high output cart into the MM inputs while my low output cart is being repaired. I much prefer the sound of the low output cart into the MC inputs, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the carts vs the Herron's different inputs.


The Herron VTPH-2a will be replacing a Lehmann Audio Decade. :D

I would think the different cart and proper loading would make the most impact as compared to adding a SUT.

Also, as good as the Herron's FET stage before the tube stage for the MC input is, I would prefer using the Dyna XX2 into the SUT, bypassing the FET stage, and using the MM inputs directly into the tube stage. But I definitely will try it both ways once the Herron arrives.
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby Dorian » Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:38 pm

jonathanb wrote:I suspect that most of the difference is due to the cartridges: the MIMC Star is simply a better sounding cartridge than the Zephyr II.

Good to know, thanks Jonathan.

edw wrote:Also, as good as the Herron's FET stage before the tube stage for the MC input is, I would prefer using the Dyna XX2 into the SUT, bypassing the FET stage, and using the MM inputs directly into the tube stage. But I definitely will try it both ways once the Herron arrives.

Looking forward to hearing the results of your comparison. I'm confident you will love the Herron.
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby jmcox » Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:59 pm

I'd like to give a thanks to Bob for the guidance he gave me in matching my carts to the right step up/impedences - he's helped me before and has proven to be very helpful and generous with his time (he's a great resource and knowledge base on the subject). . . . . In addition to building great gear !! Thanks Bob !!
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby Dorian » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:56 am

edw wrote:
Dorian wrote:
edw wrote:Correct. Will let you know how it works with the VTPH-2a in a few weeks.

Great thanks, I didnt know you also had a VTPH-2a. Amazing phono stage.

I'm curious because I am currently running a high output cart into the MM inputs while my low output cart is being repaired. I much prefer the sound of the low output cart into the MC inputs, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to the carts vs the Herron's different inputs.


The Herron VTPH-2a will be replacing a Lehmann Audio Decade. :D

I would think the different cart and proper loading would make the most impact as compared to adding a SUT.

Also, as good as the Herron's FET stage before the tube stage for the MC input is, I would prefer using the Dyna XX2 into the SUT, bypassing the FET stage, and using the MM inputs directly into the tube stage. But I definitely will try it both ways once the Herron arrives.


Hey Ed, any feedback on the Herron?
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Re: Matching carts with SUT options

Postby edw » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 pm

Dorian wrote:Hey Ed, any feedback on the Herron?


Dorian:

I am really enjoying the Herron VTPH2A phono stage. It is superb. It is organic, has a wide soundstage, and places instruments/voices in the 3D space very well. It also quieted the background by a few dBs compared to my prior phono stage, although I do get some tube rush with the Dynavecvtor XX2 Mk2 at max gain, which is +14db, on my preamp. Of course, my preamp is never set at those levels because I already have enough gain.

I am still trying different setups with the Herron though. For example, in the past, I typically loaded my phono stage (with or without SUT) to optimize the XX2. Usually, settling on loading at 80 or 100 Ohms. With the Herron in my setup, it seems to sound best without any loading. This surprised me. But this is consistent with Keith Herron's opinion. I am fully content with this setup, would not change it, and am enjoying it immensely.

But 8-) , I have used the XX2 into the HM7 SUT into the Herron's MM tube stage (thus bypassing the MC FET stage). The first thing I noticed was that, with the Herron only and using the MC inputs, the location of the instruments/voices was - say - 1/4 of the way in front of the plane of the speakers relative to my seating position and went back from there. With the SUT and the Herron using the MM inputs, the location of the instruments/voices was 1/8 of the way in front of the speakers and went back from there. Adding the SUT did not make it sound laid back but rather just located the instruments very slightly back in the 3D space. I preferred this (others may not).

Adding the SUT brought slightly more fullness of tone and drive to the music, and more gradations in dynamics in quieter passages (this improvement was more noticeable in the past with my prior phono stage; I assume the improvement was not as noticeable with the Herron because the Herron already inherently had these characteristics). At this initial stage, I prefer having the HM7 SUT in the chain as it provides more complexities/nuances to the music. It is seductive in that way. YMMV.
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