ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby Orchids1 » Fri May 05, 2017 12:46 pm

I see that it's now "locked", meaning that it will no longer accept posts. This is a first for the Forum, which, to my knowledge, has never before edited or censored content, except in cases of profanity, spam or personal attacks on other members. I'm not sure what prompted the "lock", but the inference that seems natural is not favorable. Rich
Avenger, SS Paua cart, Phoenix Eagle psu and tach, Sutherland 20/20 phono, Audionet Pre 1 G3 pre, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cable; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby jonathanb » Fri May 05, 2017 12:54 pm

I'm not sure that anything positive can be achieved by a meta-discussion of the locked thread. It's a shame that the thread deteriorated to the point that it needed to be locked.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby Orchids1 » Fri May 05, 2017 1:24 pm

Jonathan, Just how do you think the thread "deteriorated". I, myself, didn't find it objectionable, and I think it could have, and may already have, led to positive outcomes, such as better pre-production testing, quality control and post-sale product support. I also don't think the disappointment I expressed at what would seem to be the first instance of censorship invites a "meta-discussion", a rarely used term that I've seen applied to literary criticism, debate and various types of formal negotiations. Rich
Avenger, SS Paua cart, Phoenix Eagle psu and tach, Sutherland 20/20 phono, Audionet Pre 1 G3 pre, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cable; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby TomD » Fri May 05, 2017 1:40 pm

Orchids1 wrote:Jonathan, Just how do you think the thread "deteriorated". I, myself, didn't find it objectionable, and I think it could have, and may already have, led to positive outcomes, such as better pre-production testing, quality control and post-sale product support. I also don't think the disappointment I expressed at what would seem to be the first instance of censorship invites a "meta-discussion", a rarely used term that I've seen applied to literary criticism, debate and various types of formal negotiations. Rich


Rich,

Why can't you just let it go and stop stirring the pot?

It was obviously deteriorating into a name calling match between the Pheonix Engineering guy and VPI staff. Before locking, it was stated by Matt that they were taking the criticism to heart and taking actions to improve. What more do you want them to do?

Hopefully a moderator can delete this thread.
VPI Prime Signature w/SDS, VAS Nova Sig., Parasound JC3 Phono, Parasound P7 Pre, Pass Labs XA30.8 Amplifier, Salk Exotica Monitors, 2X Salk 15" Subwoofers
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby Orchids1 » Fri May 05, 2017 2:13 pm

Tom, This thread doesn't concern the ADS. I was just shocked to find that VPI had decided to close down a thread, any thread, departing from its highly-commendable practice of allowing an unfiltered exchange of views through this Forum since it's inception. Perhaps another moderator will decide to delete this thread, but I won't. I don't think that would be good for the Forum. In any case, I've said all I have to say in connection with the ADS and the lock. Rich
Avenger, SS Paua cart, Phoenix Eagle psu and tach, Sutherland 20/20 phono, Audionet Pre 1 G3 pre, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cable; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby 10ovr » Fri May 05, 2017 3:35 pm

Orchids1 wrote:I see that it's now "locked", meaning that it will no longer accept posts. This is a first for the Forum, which, to my knowledge, has never before edited or censored content, except in cases of profanity, spam or personal attacks on other members. I'm not sure what prompted the "lock", but the inference that seems natural is not favorable. Rich

Not true,,In the first post on this thread viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8508 they deleted the content,,,I had put down the price I got my Aries for,,,,, :lol:
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby WntrMute » Fri May 05, 2017 6:53 pm

I think the thread had reached a point where the discussion was possibly hurting VPI's reputation and possibly their sales. The comments by VPI themselves were beginning to sound defensive and even antagonistic with one even listing all the reasons one shouldn't buy an ADS. I personally was a little taken aback by that particular post and I'm a big FanBoy of VPI with two TNTs, one HW-19 one VPI tonearm and a HW-16.5. There are still growing pains as VPI shifts from HW's method of running a company to his son's. There are things to like and things to dislike. One thing these forums do is turn every word and sentence into a point to be argued. Also, while I feel PE has a lot of valuable information to offer, it is possible another forum might be more appropriate when criticizing a VPI product.
Remember, speech is not free on any of these forums. This one happens to be owned and operated by VPI and they can halt a deteriorating thread anytime they want. At least at this point they have allowed the content to remain available.
Last edited by WntrMute on Sat May 06, 2017 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby Phoenix Engineering » Fri May 05, 2017 8:45 pm

Orchids1 wrote:I see that it's now "locked", meaning that it will no longer accept posts. This is a first for the Forum, which, to my knowledge, has never before edited or censored content, except in cases of profanity, spam or personal attacks on other members. I'm not sure what prompted the "lock", but the inference that seems natural is not favorable. Rich


Actually, there was an entire thread deleted from Harry's Corner: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3877

The thread from Feb 2015 was entitled "Phoenix vs SDS" in which Harry supposedly did a side by side comparison of the Falcon and the SDS. The equipment list originally consisted of a Scout Jr., but a later post by Harry in that same thread said they used an Avenger with dual motor flywheel combo, which of course the Falcon would never be capable of running (the output amp would actually shut down as overcurrent protection kicked in). It made me question whether the actual comparison was ever conducted. The Falcon would have been one of the evaluation samples I sent to Harry, at his request, in June 2014, which he subsequently lost from Sep 2014 until it somehow reappeared and was used in the comparison.

Harry originally posted the following somewhat left handed endorsement:

Harry wrote:BOTTOM LINE: The Falcon is amazing and is a very real upgrade for any low to mid range VPI table, highly recommended. The SDS makes you feel like you are listening to tape, it is better but at three times the price it is a premium item and worth it for people who can afford it. Otherwise I would highly recommend the Falcon for any Scout, Scout JR, HW-19, Nomad, original traveler (without power supply). etc., you will really hear the difference. Nice job!


The thread eventually became less positive as logical questions from forum members forced Harry into a defensive position and he ended up making dismissive and even disparaging remarks about the Falcon, especially with regards to the feedback. In response, I released the first 2 videos comparing the technical differences between the Falcon and the SDS. The entire thread was removed shortly afterward, the reason for which I can only speculate.
"Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth, because they don't want their illusions destroyed..." --Nietzsche
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby WntrMute » Fri May 05, 2017 9:54 pm

Despite having more to say on this topic I am unsubscribing as my feeling is that this thread is going to turn ugly. Not that anyone cares or should care. Oh well.
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Re: ADS Owners Thread under Harry's Corner.

Postby Orchids1 » Sat May 06, 2017 10:14 am

Wntr, I sent you a personal message. By "unsubscribing", I hope you mean only that you will not further post under this thread, and nothing more. You are an active member of the Forum and make a valuable contribution to it. I and, doubtless, many other members value your participation.

As I've said a number of times, this Forum is distinguished from most others not just because of VPI's exceptional "open-door" policy, but also because of the courtesy and civility exhibited by Its members. Both of these things are important to me.

The original ADS Owners Thread had run full course. There was really nothing left unsaid. VPI had a perfect right to close the thread down, and, although I disagree with its decision, I understand it. I don't think there is much left to be said regarding the subject matter of this thread either. I think we should move on to more positive and enjoyable topics while continuing to observe the mutual courtesy and civility that have characterized the Forum from the beginning. I'm sorry, if this thread ran counter to those qualities. Rich
Avenger, SS Paua cart, Phoenix Eagle psu and tach, Sutherland 20/20 phono, Audionet Pre 1 G3 pre, Benchmark AHB2 monos, YG Carmel 2 spkrs, Nordost/Audio Sensibilty ic, Kubla-Sonsa spkr cable; Auralic Aries renderer, Auralic Vega dac.
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