Scout vibration tuning

Scout vibration tuning

Postby Packgrog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:10 pm

I'm trying to further tune the sound of my Scout Jr by reducing vibration-related issues. I'm currently interested in what improvements I can make related to the feet.

I currently have the stock feet on tiny scraps of thin grungebuster material on a 2" maple cutting board. The motor sits on 4 small-diameter thick grungebuster dots on the same maple block. The audio rack is a solid unit spiked into the concrete floor through thick carpet, with sand-filled poles, and separated from the maple platform by more thick grungebusters.

What are people's opinions on the following options (my finances are very limited, so please don't bother saying "Stillpoints"):

  • Stock delrin point feet into Herbie's Cone/Spike Puckies (http://herbiesaudiolab.net/base.htm) (would there be any worthwhile difference in this case between brass, steel, and titanium?) - approx $63 - $87 depending on metal
  • Herbie's Big Tall Tenderfeet and Hi-End Booster Base in place of cone feet (http://herbiesaudiolab.net/compfeet.htm) - approx $95
  • Brass cone feet (ie: Star Sound Audio Points) and matching pucks - approx $275 (pushing beyond my comfort zone with a budget rig, but cheaper than other replacement feet)

Thoughts?
VPI Scout Jr., Audiomods Classic, Audio Technica AT33PTG/II, Phoenix Engineering Falcon w/ DIY Arduino Uno Tachometer, Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena, RME Babyface Pro
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby Phoenix Engineering » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:26 pm

BearPaws: http://edensoundaudio.com/shop/category/bearpaw-brass-footers/

$32 each.


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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby Packgrog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:36 pm

Holy crap, that plinth looks awesome! What'd you make that out of?

Do you have some kind of felt substance between the Bearpaws and the plinth? I was under the impression that it would be better to screw solid cones directly into the plinth, then use a compliant damping material (ie: grungebuster) between a puck and the platform, so that the feet could better dissipate any plinth vibrations while isolating from motor vibrations.
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby Phoenix Engineering » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:41 pm

The plinth is a Corian sandwich with epoxy impregnated MDF in the middle (kind of a poor man's Panzerholz):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/312473-diy-cld-plinth-design-measured-approach.html

The feet have a dense closed-cell foam cushion, similar to what VPI uses on the stock feet that allows you to level the plinth while still maintaining firm contact with the foot.
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby Packgrog » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:28 am

Fascinating project, actually, and very nicely done! Would have been a nice thing to product-ize if you had the inclination. Probably pretty expensive to manufacture, but damn pretty.

I'm also reminded of this guy's project of damping the hell out of his Scout plinth: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php? ... ng.458661/ My Jr. does not have the metal plate, just vinyl-wrapped MDF, but I've wondered at times if a fully plinth-shaped metal plate could be tightened up against the plinth using the feet and bearing nut, with something like thin grungebuster material in between, to provide some additional damping. I get your point about the reduced effectiveness of the isolation if you're clamping through all of the layers, but I'm sure it's better than no damping at all, especially if you get another compliant layer in there. But that's all just "thinking out loud".

Given that my plinth is just a solid piece of MDF, that still doesn't discount the Tenderfeet idea, but I'll certainly consider the Bearpaws. Does anyone know if their VPI-specific model comes with matching pucks? They don't have much in the way of description or photos, so it's very unclear what you'd actually be getting. If it DOES come with cups, it'd be easy enough to throw some grungebuster material between that and the maple block, and I'd be golden (or at least brassy, hah hah). Pity the Terrastone feet are so pricey, as I've read some very positive things about them, but that's way out of my budget.
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby husafreak » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Beauty table!
VPI Scout 2/JMW9-3D arm/Sumiko Blackbird/VPI Periphery Ring/HRX record weight/Pheonix Falcon PSU/Timber Nation Maple Isolation Platform/Target Wall Stand/VPI HW-16.5/Ortofon 6NX-TSW-1010/Krell KSL/KSL phono/KST/XLOPro/Harbeth SHL5+
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby MMMC » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:48 pm

Packgrog wrote:Fascinating project, actually, and very nicely done! Would have been a nice thing to product-ize if you had the inclination. Probably pretty expensive to manufacture, but damn pretty.

I'm also reminded of this guy's project of damping the hell out of his Scout plinth: http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php? ... ng.458661/ My Jr. does not have the metal plate, just vinyl-wrapped MDF, but I've wondered at times if a fully plinth-shaped metal plate could be tightened up against the plinth using the feet and bearing nut, with something like thin grungebuster material in between, to provide some additional damping. I get your point about the reduced effectiveness of the isolation if you're clamping through all of the layers, but I'm sure it's better than no damping at all, especially if you get another compliant layer in there. But that's all just "thinking out loud".

Given that my plinth is just a solid piece of MDF, that still doesn't discount the Tenderfeet idea, but I'll certainly consider the Bearpaws. Does anyone know if their VPI-specific model comes with matching pucks? They don't have much in the way of description or photos, so it's very unclear what you'd actually be getting. If it DOES come with cups, it'd be easy enough to throw some grungebuster material between that and the maple block, and I'd be golden (or at least brassy, hah hah). Pity the Terrastone feet are so pricey, as I've read some very positive things about them, but that's way out of my budget.


Packgrog,

I understand your concern and desire to institute the antivibration/dampening performance tweaks on your "Jr". So fyi, the original Aries Scout, ala 2002/2003, a "1 1/8"-thick MDF, machined to shape and finished in semigloss black. Most of its underside is covered with a thin steel plate for rigidity and damping, the latter thanks also to a thin layer of silicone sealant." was per https://www.stereophile.com/turntables /776/index.html#gh6Ophcv0altqYMm.99., was the description of the reviewed Scout, so you would not be moving on un-chartered ground. It was my first VPI table, and still have deep affection for it. Notice however, the use of silicone sealant required to adhere the steel plate. Into this upgrade equation, consider the costs of a custom cut and painted simi-gloss steel plate, the resulting downgraded value of a then non-factory upgrade whenever resale occurs. On the other hand, maybe trading your current table in for maybe the next model up, will get you all the upgrades you need, and possibly a total "less" out of pocket cost of all the pieces, and not end up with a table with serious loss of resale value. If on the other hand, you feel the resulting "modded" Scout is your forever turntable, my suggestion is to save yourself the many headaches and hassle. Trade it in, and continue to move forward. Best of luck, however your chose to proceed.

MMMC
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Re: Scout vibration tuning

Postby Packgrog » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:58 pm

@MMMC It's part learning experience, part limitation with motor controller (I have a Falcon which will only work with the 600RPM motor, and anything higher up that I could get with trade-in uses a 300RPM motor), and big part financial limitation (even with full trade-in value, Prime Scout + ADS would be well out of my comfort zone). I'm also not eager to switch to a Unipivot to be honest. My gear has been fiddly enough as it is.

But yes, I'm wary of irreversible mods, partly due to the risk of ruining trade-in/resale value, partly because I might not like it. :)
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