Prime antiskate confusion

Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby oldskooldude » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:05 pm

I too have the same issues. My line is on the bottom notch. I have had to add several brass washers to the rubber grommets, as Peter Lederman advises. The brass washers were absolutely necessary.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby Jprod » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:34 pm

Trying without fishing line tonight ... I think I like it better
Although Coldplay parachutes is not a reference album I heard some sibilance in the right channel with the fishing line on. No such sibilance on side b with fishing wire off
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby oldskooldude » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:40 am

That sounds like anti-skate. Check Peter's web page on sibilance. The one of the top causes is anti-skate off. I went though the whole list and ended up at anti-skate as the culprit. It's very touchy to dial it in. If it's right your sound-stage should be clear. I went without and had sibilance. Go figure.

Peace
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:34 pm

Hello All,

Looking to dial in the anti-skating on my Prime setup and I played the first track on side 2 (Ultimate Analog Test LP) for the anti-skating test and got a clean sound (electrical hum tone) all the way until the last 5 seconds or so, where I then heard a little buzz appear on the right track. I believe that requires more anti-skating, so I added another rubber donut to the mechanical anti-skate (of which I now have two on there per the attached picture) but it didn’t seem to remove that buzz at the end of the test track. Any thoughts on this and should I keep adding more donuts until the sound goes away, or do you guys think I am good at this point? Should I play a mono LP and just simply listen for the female voice to be nice and balanced in the middle of the soundstage?

Am attaching a couple of pictures to show my anti-skating setup which BTW, should the fishing line be so close to the VTA tower? Is it OK to move the fishing line further back along the stub of the tonearm using the alan key to loosen and reattach, or does it need to remain snug up to the bearing cup as is?

Cheers,
Vin.
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IMG_4815.JPG
Anti-Skating setup (2 rubber ring donuts applied)
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IMG_4817.JPG
Fishing line position
IMG_4817.JPG (525.42 KiB) Viewed 341 times
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby thegage » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:00 pm

Three things.

IMO a test track is not the best way to check AS, but I know others have a different opinion; Peter's recommended method works just great for me.

The donuts not holding the string (the ones that affect AS) should be out at the end of the rod.

No reason you can't reposition the attachment point on the tonearm stub.

John K.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:41 pm

thegage wrote:Three things.

IMO a test track is not the best way to check AS, but I know others have a different opinion; Peter's recommended method works just great for me.

The donuts not holding the string (the ones that affect AS) should be out at the end of the rod.

No reason you can't reposition the attachment point on the tonearm stub.

John K.


Thanks John. I may reposition the attachment just so that I have a little clearance from the tower as I believe its touching.

As for moving the donuts at the end of the rod, this would apply more anti-skating correct? The reason I have them higher up is to minimize the amount of A/S but have something to counter the forces from the groove pulling the stylus towards the spindle. Are you simply suggesting I need more A/S or that they should not be where I have them?

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby Ayre Conditioned » Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:49 pm

After much experimentation this is what's working for me.
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Prime Signature•Eagle PSU and Tach•Soundsmith Sussurro MkII
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby thegage » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:30 pm

VinBob wrote:Thanks John. I may reposition the attachment just so that I have a little clearance from the tower as I believe its touching.

As for moving the donuts at the end of the rod, this would apply more anti-skating correct? The reason I have them higher up is to minimize the amount of A/S but have something to counter the forces from the groove pulling the stylus towards the spindle. Are you simply suggesting I need more A/S or that they should not be where I have them?

Cheers,
Vin.

IME having the donuts where they are on your setup effectively adds minimal AS as their weight is exactly counter-balanced by the two other donuts holding the string. That's why most people put the AS donuts further out. That's what I have to do to meet the Soundsmith recommendation.

That said, if it works for you where it is then it works!

John K.
TNT 3, 10" 3D arm, Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC Star, Classic Platter, VPI Ring, Stillpoints LPI, TerraCones feet, Phoenix Eagle/Roadrunner, Moon 310LP, Parasound JC2, SMc DNA 0.5, GE Triton 2+, Grover Empress cables, SRA and Symposium Platforms
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Sun Sep 03, 2017 10:00 pm

thegage wrote:
VinBob wrote:Thanks John. I may reposition the attachment just so that I have a little clearance from the tower as I believe its touching.

As for moving the donuts at the end of the rod, this would apply more anti-skating correct? The reason I have them higher up is to minimize the amount of A/S but have something to counter the forces from the groove pulling the stylus towards the spindle. Are you simply suggesting I need more A/S or that they should not be where I have them?

Cheers,
Vin.

IME having the donuts where they are on your setup effectively adds minimal AS as their weight is exactly counter-balanced by the two other donuts holding the string. That's why most people put the AS donuts further out. That's what I have to do to meet the Soundsmith recommendation.

That said, if it works for you where it is then it works!

John K.


Thanks John - I'll try it lower down and see if I can eliminate the buzz at the end of the anti-skating test track and will see how it affects the Azimuth when setting via the Fozgometer too. All fun stuff to experiment with but so far, I am very impressed with what I am hearing!

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby cbl117 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:31 pm

VinBob wrote:
thegage wrote:
VinBob wrote:Thanks John. I may reposition the attachment just so that I have a little clearance from the tower as I believe its touching.

As for moving the donuts at the end of the rod, this would apply more anti-skating correct? The reason I have them higher up is to minimize the amount of A/S but have something to counter the forces from the groove pulling the stylus towards the spindle. Are you simply suggesting I need more A/S or that they should not be where I have them?

Cheers,
Vin.

IME having the donuts where they are on your setup effectively adds minimal AS as their weight is exactly counter-balanced by the two other donuts holding the string. That's why most people put the AS donuts further out. That's what I have to do to meet the Soundsmith recommendation.

That said, if it works for you where it is then it works!

John K.


Thanks John - I'll try it lower down and see if I can eliminate the buzz at the end of the anti-skating test track and will see how it affects the Azimuth when setting via the Fozgometer too. All fun stuff to experiment with but so far, I am very impressed with what I am hearing!

Cheers,
Vin.


Vin, The second post in this thread (by brf) explains the available AS options perfectly. John K is right in that the way you have the donuts its effectively counter-balancing the weight.

If you want more AS, try moving the fishing line down to the bottom of the post and push one donut down to the inside of the post to secure the fishing line. Then on the other post (not ribbed) load the donut quantity you want but keep them at the outside end of the post. You will get the most AS force following this method and depending on how many donuts used.
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