Prime antiskate confusion

Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:10 pm

Thanks - I have the donuts where they are as I wanted to have minimal A/S as I don't need as much as those using the Soundsmith cartridges.

However, I do see your point and will move the donuts to the end of the non ribbed post and maybe start with one donut ring and go from there. On the ribbed post, is it OK to simply have it like Brf shows it or is it best to add the ring after the fishing line like you suggested? I use two donuts so that the fishing line is held in place but I assume that is overkill?

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby cbl117 » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:16 pm

VinBob wrote:Thanks - I have the donuts where they are as I wanted to have minimal A/S as I don't need as much as those using the Soundsmith cartridges.

However, I do see your point and will move the donuts to the end of the non ribbed post and maybe start with one donut ring and go from there. On the ribbed post, is it OK to simply have it like Brf shows it or is it best to add the ring after the fishing line like you suggested? I use two donuts so that the fishing line is held in place but I assume that is overkill?

Cheers,
Vin.


Sorry I didn't quite get which direction you were looking to head with respect to AS force quantity.

I have my fishing line sandwiched between the black delrin cam and one rubber donut above. I do this because it keeps my line as parallel to the record surface as possible, thus (at least in my mind) minimizes the affect on Azimuth as the AS force changes. I also push the entire AS assembly down as far as possible to get the fishing line parallel to the record surface.

FWIW, I have 1 donut midway down the smooth post and one donut sandwiching the fishing line at the cam. And thats with a 8.8g cartridge and 1.8g VTF.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:46 pm

cbl117 wrote:
VinBob wrote:Thanks - I have the donuts where they are as I wanted to have minimal A/S as I don't need as much as those using the Soundsmith cartridges.

However, I do see your point and will move the donuts to the end of the non ribbed post and maybe start with one donut ring and go from there. On the ribbed post, is it OK to simply have it like Brf shows it or is it best to add the ring after the fishing line like you suggested? I use two donuts so that the fishing line is held in place but I assume that is overkill?

Cheers,
Vin.


Sorry I didn't quite get which direction you were looking to head with respect to AS force quantity.

I have my fishing line sandwiched between the black delrin cam and one rubber donut above. I do this because it keeps my line as parallel to the record surface as possible, thus (at least in my mind) minimizes the affect on Azimuth as the AS force changes. I also push the entire AS assembly down as far as possible to get the fishing line parallel to the record surface.

FWIW, I have 1 donut midway down the smooth post and one donut sandwiching the fishing line at the cam. And thats with a 8.8g cartridge and 1.8g VTF.


Thanks again for the feedback and I will use your method for holding the fishing line in place which is actually how its demonstrated in the VPI Prime setup video with one donut. I guess for me, I probably will have to use less A/S than you which would mean having the single donut higher up the post towards the delrin cam, as my cartridge is 7.3g with a 1.75g VTF.

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby oldskooldude » Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:36 pm

I spent a good deal of time on anti-skate. I spoke with Peter about it as well. Following his instructions, even if you don't have a Sound-Smith cartridge will yield excellent results in sound-stage and detail. You can see from the picture that I have the line parallel, it is also close to perpendicular at any point in the arm swing as it plays. The donut on the inner shaft is to hold the line in place, the brass washers and donuts were added to get the weight needed using the Ultimate Analogue Test record. It took about an hour of trial and error to dial it in. I have no azimuth issue as long as the line is parallel.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:12 pm

oldskooldude wrote:I spent a good deal of time on anti-skate. I spoke with Peter about it as well. Following his instructions, even if you don't have a Sound-Smith cartridge will yield excellent results in sound-stage and detail. You can see from the picture that I have the line parallel, it is also close to perpendicular at any point in the arm swing as it plays. The donut on the inner shaft is to hold the line in place, the brass washers and donuts were added to get the weight needed using the Ultimate Analogue Test record. It took about an hour of trial and error to dial it in. I have no azimuth issue as long as the line is parallel.


Thanks for sharing - WOW that's a lot of A/S weight!!!

Interesting that you don't have the donut applied after the fishing line to keep in place and prevent from moving along the rod - I guess it works either way?

Cheers,
Vincenzo.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby oldskooldude » Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:53 pm

Yes, I thought it was a lot of weight too. I tried desperately to use less, but I could not find a record that it didn't immediately go to the lead out groove. With this weight I can get it to slowly move toward the center and just at the end the groove catches it, so I guess it's right.

If I put the donut above the line, the line falls to the bottom of the shaft for some reason when I move the tone arm in. Under it the line will stay in the groove.

Once I was able to get it to behave correctly I immediately noticed the sound stage become much more detailed. Peter says the esoteric stylus profiles are most susceptible to skate because there is more contact with the record groove. It makes sense. The twisted wire method is too inaccurate and unpredictable and none just won't do. With none it may sound OK, but imagine how much extra wear there is on the inside of the stylus.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:13 pm

oldskooldude wrote:Yes, I thought it was a lot of weight too. I tried desperately to use less, but I could not find a record that it didn't immediately go to the lead out groove. With this weight I can get it to slowly move toward the center and just at the end the groove catches it, so I guess it's right.

If I put the donut above the line, the line falls to the bottom of the shaft for some reason when I move the tone arm in. Under it the line will stay in the groove.

Once I was able to get it to behave correctly I immediately noticed the sound stage become much more detailed. Peter says the esoteric stylus profiles are most susceptible to skate because there is more contact with the record groove. It makes sense. The twisted wire method is too inaccurate and unpredictable and none just won't do. With none it may sound OK, but imagine how much extra wear there is on the inside of the stylus.


Fair enough mate and yes, totally agree with you on the comments regarding having A/S versus not having any!

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby VinBob » Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:24 pm

One thing I am still scratching my head over, is when would one place the fishing line higher up the ribbed post? Just about every picture and video I have seen always seem to have the fishing line at the end by the delrin post either in front or behind a rubber donut.

Would appreciate a more detailed explanation even though Brf did a great job with his post on this way back in the beginning!

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby oldskooldude » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:56 am

I actually tried it with the line higher on the shaft. VPI doesn't provide a very long line, so when the A/S gizmo is lined up parallel and perpendicular the weights are pulled too high and it flips over so it no longer functions. It would seem you could get better leverage and hence use less weight if the line would work further out on the shaft. I may be wrong on that, it's been a very long time since I took physics in college.

I notice that the line on my Prime Signature seems shorter than the line I had on my Classic 2.5. I was able to go higher on the inner shaft with the Classic than on the Prime Signature.

You can actually change the line if you choose. I'm sure any Bait and Tackle store would have fishing line of the size that we use. I mentioned that I had to re-install my line. It wasn't a terrible hassle, about 10 minutes. If I were still having difficulty I would change the line and try higher on the shaft.

If you're a set it and forget it type when you got into this hobby you were surprised at how many DIY projects there are when you buy finished stuff! I don't use him for this type of work, but there is a person near me that does this kind of work (he also does high-end repairs and mods) if you are wealthy and don't want to be bothered with messing with it. He charges $75 and hour and will consult, acquire and set-up your system. All you do is listen. Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Most metro areas have lots of these type people working out of their homes.
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Re: Prime antiskate confusion

Postby WERA689 » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:23 pm

oldskooldude wrote:If you're a set it and forget it type when you got into this hobby you were surprised at how many DIY projects there are when you buy finished stuff! I don't use him for this type of work, but there is a person near me that does this kind of work (he also does high-end repairs and mods) if you are wealthy and don't want to be bothered with messing with it. He charges $75 and hour and will consult, acquire and set-up your system. All you do is listen. Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Most metro areas have lots of these type people working out of their homes.


I live about 50 miles from you, up in Canton. I'm just curious who you're referring to here.
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