Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Votan » Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:53 am

edw wrote:
Brf wrote:Nice, if they perform as good as they look you got a winner.


Dorian wrote:Do you notice any audible improvement EDW?


The HW40 feet were incredible on the Scout 2. I could perform Mat's bottle test where you slam a bottle repeatedly on the platform where the TT while playing and the TT would not affect the table at all. I will try to replicate this on the Prime but still looking at the proper inserts. Ideally, I would like to use one insert instead of the 2 that I am using current (this is because the Scout has the threads from the mounts pointing down from the top of the feet while the Prime as the threads from the mount pointing up from the bottom of the feet).

I'm very skeptical about whether performing Mat's bottle test, where you "slam a bottle repeatedly on the platform where the TT is resting, while playing and the TT would not affect the table at all", is the ultimate test to judge the final sonic identity - quality that one platform, or some feet offer in one TT, or even on any audio device?
Is there ever any chance that in normal circumstances a TT will play music in such hammering circumstances?
Or is it true here that since a support successfully overrides the bottle slamming test, imagine how sonically better it will behave in the usual micro-vibrations?
Because then all the TT resting platforms or the corresponding feet of the audio devices would be made only of soft isolation rubbers, or from cushions - air bladders. Something most manufacturers who once tried, have abandoned!
Since in particular a TT is also "struck" by vibrations carried by air, and these, like the intrinsic vibrations from its rotation as well as by the energy of the cartridge “digging” the grooves, must be drained as directly and immediately as possible towards the earth through proper mechanical grounding, which for sure is not achieved by the absolute isolation of TT’s plinth from its grounding path.
EDIT: Not to mention the micro-movements - vibrations of plinth and platter that the belts, or rim drive will cause in each turn, if the support is made of soft materials.
So, should we really consider whether the ultimate platform or support feet of a TT or any other audio device, would be the ones that can successfully combine both isolation and mechanical grounding in the right percentage of each? And also in the right percentage for each one's set up? Even if they don't pass the Mat’s bottle test so successfully?
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Brf » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:54 am

IMHO, the bottle test is more of a conversation starter and "may" not really reflect the table's real world isolation capabilities. How often will a turntable encounter such a violent force? As an analogy, would you optimize your car's suspension to handle the occasional pot hole, or optimize it for everyday driving conditions?
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Votan » Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:30 am

Brf, I totally agree with you, and as you can see my questions were self-answered to the same direction...
I was just wondering if this "Mat's bottle test" is the way VPI chooses the feet of the TTs it manufactures ...
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby DrumTemp » Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:54 pm

Votan wrote:Brf, I totally agree with you, and as you can see my questions were self-answered to the same direction...
I was just wondering if this "Mat's bottle test" is the way VPI chooses the feet of the TTs it manufactures ...


As I recall, from the early days, a standard test for turntable isolation was the "foot fall" test. Walking across a room, or stomping your foot on the floor, and listening for a thump transmitted to your speakers...especially if your listening room is on a raised floor (mine is).

Votan raises an interesting point/question: what type of testing is done for choosing the feet of a turntable? As an owner of the Avenger Reference with the reference feet, this "isolation system" is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I wonder what was the methodology for creating such a system? I have not done Mat's Bottle Test (see what you've started, Mat! :D ) on my Avenger, but I don't believe it would pass. OTH, I don't hear anything through my speakers as I'm walking towards the turntable from my listening chair...so for that test the Avenger system passes.
BUT, is there some sort of turntable isolation test in general that VPI uses (for all of it's turntable line), and in particular, how DID the Avenger Reference footer system come about?
Just curious....
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Lewisranchmike » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:06 pm

Just my $0.02. I also had some issues with Prime motor vibration. The following GREATLY ELIMINATED effects.

1) I went to simple single silk thread instead of belts.(very inexpensive but need speed controller)

2) I converted to Eden Stone footers and platform for drive.

Each of the above had significant effect. For what it worth. Your results may vary.

Best,

Mike in Austin
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Stringreen » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:45 pm

Lewandmike.....I use Edansound's Bearpaws on my Superscoutmaster/rimdrive. I tried the stones, but the paws were very much better in my system. Give them a try....easy return if not to your liking.
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Lewisranchmike » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:54 pm

Stringreen wrote:Lewandmike.....I use Edansound's Bearpaws on my Superscoutmaster/rimdrive. I tried the stones, but the paws were very much better in my system. Give them a try....easy return if not to your liking.

Hello Stringreen, thx for response. I have since moved to Avenger which does not have issue:0)

Best,

Mike
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby edw » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:16 pm

Brf wrote:IMHO, the bottle test is more of a conversation starter and "may" not really reflect the table's real world isolation capabilities. How often will a turntable encounter such a violent force? As an analogy, would you optimize your car's suspension to handle the occasional pot hole, or optimize it for everyday driving conditions?


Probably true but it does sound like there is tighter bass and definition everywhere in my setup.
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby edw » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:47 pm

Lewisranchmike wrote:Just my $0.02. I also had some issues with Prime motor vibration. The following GREATLY ELIMINATED effects.

1) I went to simple single silk thread instead of belts.(very inexpensive but need speed controller)

2) I converted to Eden Stone footers and platform for drive.

Mike in Austin


Which footers?
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Re: Prime - vibration isolator questions?

Postby Lewisranchmike » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:15 pm

edw wrote:
Lewisranchmike wrote:Just my $0.02. I also had some issues with Prime motor vibration. The following GREATLY ELIMINATED effects.

1) I went to simple single silk thread instead of belts.(very inexpensive but need speed controller)

2) I converted to Eden Stone footers and platform for drive.

Mike in Austin


Which footers?


TerraStone Footers and he also has a platform the Motor sits on. It took the vibration right out of the picture. Quite effective.

Mike
Avenger Reference MK1(Stillpoints Ultra 5), VAS Nova Gold, Stillpoints LPI, VPI Ring, Eagle PSU, Roadrunner Tach, Audio Sensibility Statement, ARC Ref Phono 2SE, ARC Ref 5SE, McIntosh MC252, KimberKable 8TC, Vandersteen 3A Sig
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