Periphery Ring Shock

Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Golear » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:19 am

Very interesting. Great way to confirm the hypothesis! I had no idea that spinning the ring would make it pick up static to that extent. Cars pick up static as they move through the wind, of course. So I guess the ring will pick up static as it spins through the air.

I'd check the humidity in your room. May be a humidifier might reduce the amount of static that will be picked up. But then again, may be the humidifier might introduce RF or mains artifacts.....

I'm curious - I don't think I got the answer to whether you turn the volume to zero before touching the ring. If that solves the issue, I'd do that.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Mr_Putty » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:02 am

If you use a record mat; a narrow piece of Al foil under the mat, from the spindle to the ring should work. The destat brush on an Arm should work as well. (from the link mentioned previously)
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby edw » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:48 am

Maybe an erasable conductive ink pen (though not sure it will work on acrylic).
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Brf » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:56 am

Mr_Putty wrote:If you use a record mat; a narrow piece of Al foil under the mat, from the spindle to the ring should work. The destat brush on an Arm should work as well. (from the link mentioned previously)


You can also purchase a "conductive" record mat. DJ's have used carbon fiber infused mats for years and they are inexpensive. You could also purchase a 100% carbon fiber mat, but they can be expensive.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Vear » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:31 pm

Golear wrote:
I'm curious - I don't think I got the answer to whether you turn the volume to zero before touching the ring. If that solves the issue, I'd do that.


It's strange that the ring picks-up the static on it's own. I even tried shielding the Lemo box and Cartridge to confirm that it was not picking up a charge as it spun past them. No dice...I still got the "tick".

I can only hear it with the volume up. But just like with the motor "pop" issue (which could have been resolved by lowering the volume), I like to get to he source of a problem and correct it if I can.


Mr_Putty wrote:If you use a record mat; a narrow piece of Al foil under the mat, from the spindle to the ring should work. The destat brush on an Arm should work as well. (from the link mentioned previously)


Yes, great minds think alike! I actually thought of that but for now I'm going to avoid going the mat route. I want to experience the bare acrylic for a while.

I don't think the de-stat brush will help because the record will not touch the P-ring when I don't clamp it down and just use the P-ring for additional rotational mass resting on the edge of the acrylic platter (which lately has been most of the time). Now if the de-stat brush was running on the top edge of the p-ring, maybe it would help.

edw wrote:Maybe an erasable conductive ink pen (though not sure it will work on acrylic).


Interesting thought...


Brf wrote:You can also purchase a "conductive" record mat. DJ's have used carbon fiber infused mats for years and they are inexpensive. You could also purchase a 100% carbon fiber mat, but they can be expensive.


I still don't think one of these mats will do the trick because they will not come in contact with the P-ring but I could be wrong.

Thanks again all, I'm just going to have to get used to that light tick I hear...

But again, unless someone can tell me that there is an audible detriment to grounding the spindle bearing I strongly feel that VPI tables should come from the factory with a ground wire to the bearing assembly. That would be especially useful now that they have gone back to aluminum platters.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby edw » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:52 pm

While Im not advocating any particular product, this review article discusses static electricity readings around a TT. Some interesting measurements relating to the outer edge of the platter and belt.

https://theaudiophileman.com/destat-iii ... ch-review/


And I would still try a different phono pre if you can, especially if you have any component with a 2 prong power cord.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Brf » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:46 am

Vear wrote:

Brf wrote:You can also purchase a "conductive" record mat. DJ's have used carbon fiber infused mats for years and they are inexpensive. You could also purchase a 100% carbon fiber mat, but they can be expensive.


I still don't think one of these mats will do the trick because they will not come in contact with the P-ring but I could be wrong.

Thanks again all, I'm just going to have to get used to that light tick I hear...

But again, unless someone can tell me that there is an audible detriment to grounding the spindle bearing I strongly feel that VPI tables should come from the factory with a ground wire to the bearing assembly. That would be especially useful now that they have gone back to aluminum platters.


If you ground your platter bearing/spindle, a conductive record mat would create a low impedance path for the static energy to be transferred to the conductive platter spindle and drained to ground. Right now your P-ring is storing the static energy just waiting to be discharged because it has no where to go. My money is still on the phono stage.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby edw » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:01 pm

Vear wrote:I don't think the de-stat brush will help because the record will not touch the P-ring when I don't clamp it down and just use the P-ring for additional rotational mass resting on the edge of the acrylic platter (which lately has been most of the time). Now if the de-stat brush was running on the top edge of the p-ring, maybe it would help.


you could try putting the de-stat brush on the P-ring instead of on the LP. :mrgreen:
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby madrac » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:59 am

edw wrote:
Vear wrote:I don't think the de-stat brush will help because the record will not touch the P-ring when I don't clamp it down and just use the P-ring for additional rotational mass resting on the edge of the acrylic platter (which lately has been most of the time). Now if the de-stat brush was running on the top edge of the p-ring, maybe it would help.


you could try putting the de-stat brush on the P-ring instead of on the LP. :mrgreen:


+1. That’s what I was thinking in my earlier post.
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Re: Periphery Ring Shock

Postby Golear » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:24 pm

Just came across an interesting article on how static electricity forms - the details were a mystery, until very recently. Rubbing something against something deforms the molecules on the surface. When the molecules get back into position (or try to), there's a build-up of electromagnetic energy.

So... when you play the LP, the stylus rubs against the LP and there is a build-up of static electricity on the LP. This static electricity has nowhere to go, because the platter is an insulator (acrylic), and the stylus material is also an insulator (diamond). The charge spreads to the periphery ring. When you go get close to the periphery ring, the charge arcs from the edge of the ring to your finger, generating the audible "pop" sound in your system.

I think we have all the elements of a Van Der Graff generator here! (The periphery ring might even "collect" the charge and store it, just like the dome on a Van Der Graff generator.)

What happens when you don't use the periphery ring? I think the static is either not efficiently collected or the discharge pattern will be different - it's slower, so there's no spark and so no RF.

Is the sound audible if you turn the volume all the way down to zero, or engage the mute button on your preamp? If you don't have a mute button, select a different input.

PS: There may be some stray magnetic fields from the motor. If the periphery ring spins through them, is it possible that would cause a charge to be built up?
PPS: May be a modified clamp/center-weight, which makes contact with the LP surface will provide a path for the static electricity to go down the bearing and to a Ground wire.
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