Instruction Manuals mess?

Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Votan » Tue Jun 04, 2019 2:05 am

An audiophile friend of mine called me the other day to make the maintenance (lubing, etc.) of his two years old VPI Prime Scout. I asked him if he has the relevant lubricant from VPI and he gave me a syringe with white lithium grease that VPI agent gave it to him for his TT! OK I thought, this is an inverted bearing TT like my Prime Signature. But what a surprise when I took out the platter, Prime Scout is a well bearing TT where, as far as I know we must use drops of oil and not grease!
I asked him to fetch the relevant instruction manual that accompanies the Prime Scout but unfortunately he couldn’t find it! So, I went in VPI’s website and searched for the Prime Scout’s Manual. But instead of it, look what a mess I found:
Going to “Manuals”>”Prime Scout”, it takes me to “Prime Instruction Manual” (!!!), in fourth page of which it recommends:” The platter is lubed with PTFE grease and needs nothing for at least two years”!
Going to “Products”>”Performance Turntables”>”VPI Prime Scout”>”Resources”>”VPI Prime Scout Turntable Manual” it opens to “VPI Prime Signature Manual (!!!), but inside it speaks for Prime (cone feet, etc., it’s what exactly happens as well for my printed manual of Prime Signature) in fourth page of which it again recommends:”The platter is lubed with PTFE grease and needs nothing for at least two years”!
Reading the “Prime Scout - Platter Spindle Bearing Lubing” topic in this forum, Brf (which relevant knowledge and experience I totally appreciate) recommends “oil and not grease”, with which my up to now experience totally agrees.
Prime Signature/10"3DR/Finite Element(FE) platform/ADS/Lyra Titan/VPI Ring/WW Silver Eclipse 8 Phono Cable/Groove+ SRX MkII Phono Stage/Moon 740 Pre/Moon 820 PSU/ATC 100 Active Speakers/AQ Niagara IC/WW Silver Electra A/C,FE Ref Rack/RPG Room Treatm.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Johnny » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:08 am

My Avenger Reference manual was absolutely useless. Nothing about the magnetic platter, rim drive and incorrect info about platter bearing lubrication. I had to rely 100% on the VPI forum (members, not VPI staff) to get information. I just chalked it up to small business challenges.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Votan » Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:24 pm

Dear Mat,
Frankly, I would expect some responsible and direct response from VPI for what I have described above; especially after the new Staff Introduction from you (whom I heartily welcome), οr even to silently have made the necessary corrections in your website, but in vain!
Btw, I would like to make it very clear that the present (or even elsewhere) comments and criticism have absolutely no intention of discredit VPI.
On the contrary, been uninterruptedly a VPI’s client from 2002, well-intentioned my comments try to point out some of the crucial inaccuracies and omissions often encountered in the relevant manuals, in order they to be cured.
Btw, we all more or less know that there is also a plethora of necessary detailed, precise and updated instructions that are inexplicably absent from the manuals of many models, the absence of which are likely to lead to improper use and/or maintenance and consequently to potential damage, or at best not to delight all the sonic potential of a VPI product. Not to mention the frustration of the newbies!
Facts that I see that have been raised as problems as well from other members above or in other topics of the forum (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11498 ). Always keeping in mind that no matter how informative and helpful this VPI forum is, the only valid instructions are those included in the manufacturer’s official instruction manuals, which after all, reflect the seriousness and reliability of the company and its respect to their clients.
And it's not impossible at all, each one of those omissions and/or inaccuracies alone, το create false associations of some carelessness or apathy (or even despiseness?) for updated, accurate and detailed instructions (or at least for a response to relevant comments), that could unjustly undermine VPI’s otherwise excellent manufacturing reputation.
In any case, for any serious manufacturer, much more should be welcome and useful the benevolent comments and criticism as feedback by demanding customers, instead of only reckless applauses, cheers and hymns, or even (for more or less obvious reasons) silent sufferance…
Michael V
Prime Signature/10"3DR/Finite Element(FE) platform/ADS/Lyra Titan/VPI Ring/WW Silver Eclipse 8 Phono Cable/Groove+ SRX MkII Phono Stage/Moon 740 Pre/Moon 820 PSU/ATC 100 Active Speakers/AQ Niagara IC/WW Silver Electra A/C,FE Ref Rack/RPG Room Treatm.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby spinit » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:10 am

I don't work for VPI or own any of their products. I have been considering them and have been lurking on the forum to get a better feel for their products and service. I saw your original post on day it was posted and checked to see if what you wrote was correct since I have had issues with their website, but was under the impression that it was being updated, I clicked on the "Click here to view the official VPI Website!" at the top of the forum page. I went to Products > Performance Turntables > VPI Prime Scout. Scrolling down the page to Resources and clicking on Manual brought up the Prime Scout manual which instructed to use 40 weight motor oil in section 10.

It is possible that they assumed, as i did, that between the time of your maintenance and post the site had been updated. The information you provided is not always to sufficient to identify a code issue. What I did brought me to these addresses; https://www.vpiindustries.com/scout and https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/5e0564_e ... 2f1cdd.pdf.

If you provide the address links you see, id your browser and web page language/country (if applicable), it may help them to identify the issue. Perhaps you need to clear your browser history and delete the cache. At times, I get sent to broken links/old web pages and sometimes this will fix the problem.

Please take no offense.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Votan » Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:08 pm

Dear spinit,
Believe me; I am very fastidious in what I post here. I assure you that until Monday, June 24, 2019 time 12:24 PM that I posted my 2nd post on this topic, I had repeatedly checked the site of VPI at this very point (Prime Scout manual) following exactly the route you describe and it was as I describe it in my original post, namely it opened to “VPI Prime Signature Manual (!!!), but inside it spoke for Prime, in fourth page of which it recommended:”The platter is lubed with PTFE grease and needs nothing for at least two years”.
After your post above, I followed the exact same route as I used to follow before and at last (!!) now I found the correct manual of Prime Scout like you. Obviously they corrected it after my 2nd post silently, inexplicably scorning to answer me directly.
Prime Signature/10"3DR/Finite Element(FE) platform/ADS/Lyra Titan/VPI Ring/WW Silver Eclipse 8 Phono Cable/Groove+ SRX MkII Phono Stage/Moon 740 Pre/Moon 820 PSU/ATC 100 Active Speakers/AQ Niagara IC/WW Silver Electra A/C,FE Ref Rack/RPG Room Treatm.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby spinit » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:31 pm

Sorry, double post. Didn't realize there was an approval for new members.
Last edited by spinit on Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby 10ovr » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 pm

Last time Mat was on the forum was Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:02 pm :lol:
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Golear » Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:47 am

Votan wrote:...inexplicably scorning to answer me directly.


That is a bit unfair, really. I once contacted a very high-end company about a spare part. I bought a turntable from them (new) and it performed flawlessly. But now it was getting a bit old. Their answer was short and sweet: the product was discontinued. And that was that. To their credit, they were polite and they did answer me.

There might be a bit of a mess with things like manuals. But there are many companies with terrible manuals.

VPI must be recognized for making excellent products, fair prices. And doing their best at supporting older products as well as maintaining compatibility, and providing upgrade paths. Those are the most important things. I'm a fan - they've earned it.
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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby jpb6061 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Well said, Golear!!! X2


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Re: Instruction Manuals mess?

Postby Votan » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:32 pm

Golear wrote:
Votan wrote:...inexplicably scorning to answer me directly.


That is a bit unfair, really. I once contacted a very high-end company about a spare part. I bought a turntable from them (new) and it performed flawlessly. But now it was getting a bit old. Their answer was short and sweet: the product was discontinued. And that was that. To their credit, they were polite and they did answer me.

There might be a bit of a mess with things like manuals. But there are many companies with terrible manuals.

VPI must be recognized for making excellent products, fair prices. And doing their best at supporting older products as well as maintaining compatibility, and providing upgrade paths. Those are the most important things. I'm a fan - they've earned it.

jpb6061 wrote:Well said, Golear!!! X2
JB


It's your right to want to prove your dedication and loyalty to VPI, but I’m sorry to demand, not by you misquoting me.
And I suggest you to read more carefully and try to understand what I well-intentioned wrote in all my relevant posts, mainly the one of Monday Juen 24, 2019 12:24 pm and I hope you’d understand what I mean about the update Ι was expecting, but I never received officially.
Btw, I never questioned (indeed just the opposite!) the fact that VPI is making excellent products, in fair prices, as well that they are doing their best at supporting older products as well as maintaining compatibility, and providing upgrade paths. As well as, the fact that my main setup is uninterruptedly graced by TTs, tonearms and accessories of VPI from 2002, I assume that it states unequivocally that I am no less a fan comparing to you.
Also the fact that there are many other TT companies with terrible manuals does not mean that we should not urge VPI to be excellent in this decisive sector as well.
To repeat what I wrote in a previous post: “In any case, for any serious manufacturer, much more should be welcome and useful the benevolent comments and criticism as feedback by demanding customers, instead of only applauses, cheers and hymns.”
Prime Signature/10"3DR/Finite Element(FE) platform/ADS/Lyra Titan/VPI Ring/WW Silver Eclipse 8 Phono Cable/Groove+ SRX MkII Phono Stage/Moon 740 Pre/Moon 820 PSU/ATC 100 Active Speakers/AQ Niagara IC/WW Silver Electra A/C,FE Ref Rack/RPG Room Treatm.
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