Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Peer Gynt » Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:20 pm

I’ve got a Classic screw clamp, a Levinson weight, and an HRX weight.

I’ve got two tables with 20 pound Classic platters.

The Classic 3 Table came with a rubber washer to go on the spindle below the record. The clamp goes on top.

The Levinson 515 came with a thin and flimsy felt mat and the Levinson weight.

I’ve also got an HRX ring and weight, which could be used with either table.

If you use, or used to use, the HRX weight and ring, I’m curious to know

1. Do you put a rubber washer on the spindle before you mount the record?

2. Do you use a mat with a record weight?

In my experience before obtaining the HRX ring and weight, I had decided I liked the Levinson best with the flimsy felt and no weight. I got the HRX ring and weight to see if it would improve warps.

So far, it looks good at controlling warps at the perimeter, but if the warp extends toward the center, it’s not that great.

I don’t have many really bad warps, but I do have a few. The ring works on the lead in groove, so that’s a big plus. By an inch in though, you can see warp driven tonearm oscillation.

Advice?
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Brf » Mon Aug 27, 2018 3:07 pm

The rubber washer is only to be used with VPI's screw down reflex clamps. The rubber washer provides inner record label support while the reflex clamp's outer perimeter applies pressure on the record's outer label to create a bowing action, thus coupling the record to the platter. The washer goes directly under the record and on top of the platter and/or any record mat utilized. You do not use the rubber washer with a record weight (HRX weight etc)

Record mats can be used with either a reflex clamps and/or with a record weight and periphery ring. Just like your LP12 which recommends the use of a felt mat, each manufacture will have a preference as to use a mat or not. VPI's general position is that their aluminum platters sound best without a mat, but other find the use of a mat beneficial on VPI tables. IMHO, mats are user preference.
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Peer Gynt » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:04 pm

I was curious about the VPI folk lore surrounding the washer.

I just finished a listening session where, after an hour’s warm up, I played a badly warped record.

First on the Levinson with HRX weight and ring. No mat. No rubber. No screw down.

Then on the Levinson with no ring or weight, but with the flimsy felt mat.

Then on the LP12 in its normal configuration... no ring, no weight, no clamp, just the stock felt mat.

The other differences are that the Levinson sports an Ortofon Cadenza Bronze played through an Audio Research PH5, while the Linn sports a Lyra Kleos played through a Conrad Johnson TEA2MAX.

This album (its an old Kenny Burrell album that’s well recorded) has a warp that is bad enough to cause problems in the lead in groove.

Although I appreciated the warp control in the lead in groove, to my ears on the Levinson the plain felt mat was better than the ringed weighted bare platter. Better sound stage. More space between instruments. Clearer details.

I’d pretty much decided that I liked the felt mat best before the HRX ring and weight arrived.

I’ll play with these items for a week or so and then decide what I really think.

Thanks for the input.
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Peer Gynt » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:09 pm

I’ve been surprised and pleased that the ring and weight seem to offer an improvement for many thick, unwarped records. This may be related to the coupling to the platter that they provide.

On thin, warped, old records, the ring definitely helps the lead in groove issues.

Something I was surprised to find was that the ring can't do it’s intended job on some nominal 12” records because their diameter is too small.
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Mr_Putty » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:17 pm

My washer measures 3 cm in diameter and 2 mm thick. My experience with it makes me think it would work better if it were 1 to 1.5 mm thick. This would have less effect on a/s as well. Anyone have a source to try? Would you use buna for material?
Thanks
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Brf » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:21 am

Mr_Putty wrote:My washer measures 3 cm in diameter and 2 mm thick. My experience with it makes me think it would work better if it were 1 to 1.5 mm thick. This would have less effect on a/s as well. Anyone have a source to try? Would you use buna for material?
Thanks


You can purchase different diameter and thickness rubber washers from Home Depot etc. I have a large collection of different size, materials etc. Personally, I did not hear a difference between different washer materials including the Herbie Audio washer. However, the thickness does impact on the reflex clamp’s ability to perform its intended function to properly couple the album to the platter.

Not sure how the washer size can affect a/s unless you are applying too much pressure, therefore, causing a bowing affect which results in the album no longer being level.
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby WntrMute » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:42 am

Brf wrote:
Mr_Putty wrote:My washer measures 3 cm in diameter and 2 mm thick. My experience with it makes me think it would work better if it were 1 to 1.5 mm thick. This would have less effect on a/s as well. Anyone have a source to try? Would you use buna for material?
Thanks


You can purchase different diameter and thickness rubber washers from Home Depot etc. I have a large collection of different size, materials etc. Personally, I did not hear a difference between different washer materials including the Herbie Audio washer. However, the thickness does impact on the reflex clamp’s ability to perform its intended function to properly couple the album to the platter.

Not sure how the washer size can affect a/s unless you are applying too much pressure, therefore, causing a bowing affect which results in the album no longer being level.


Oh BRF, you are one of those "different washer materials make a HUGE difference" deniers ? For shame, for shame!
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Mr_Putty » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:15 pm

I purchased a new 1/4 by 1-1/4 inch fender washer from Home Depo. It fits perfectly. I sanded one side to remove any rough edges and then installed it with a SMALL amount of modelers clay on the bottom. The thickness is about half the thickness of my rubber washer and works great with the screw down clamp. I tried the clamp both with and without a rubber O-ring that fits just inside the outer diameter of the clamp. I prefer the sound with the O-ring without any mat. The O-ring touches the record when clamped.

Now I need a suggestion. I am trying a PS Audio NuWave Converter (listening only to the preamp). It’s broken in about a week and sounding quite good. It has lots of detail and channel separation, but I would prefer a deeper, more realistic sound stage with more sustain of the sound field, if that makes any sense. Sometimes it’s great and other times it seems “sterile” or too anylitical. Is there another preamp in the same price range that I should consider? I’m using a 2M Bronze on a Prime. I’ve tried several combinations of isolation platforms but I still struggle with low frequency groove noise. A few of my records don’t seem to have it but most do. I thought it might be cartridge resonance or the rubber isolation in the Prime feet, but I really don’t know. I just know if I could get rid of it, I would be much happier. Also, I think I would like the second pivot, but don’t see it listed on the VPI web site. I guess the usual dealers have them?
Thanks for any suggestions.
JTA
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Re: Rubber Washer with HRX weight?

Postby Mr_Putty » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:53 am

I’ve changed my mind on the use of a O-ring under my clamp. I now prefer no ring with minimal clamping pressure on a taped platter. I have also added more clay dampening in various places on the tonearm adjustment platform. No photo because it’s not pretty, but pretty is not my goal. I still have some motor noise, but less than before, so headed the right direction. Tonality is improved as is openness and dynamics.
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