First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby VinBob » Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:34 pm

Stringreen wrote:I had the slide plate and 2nd pivot in position ...and then adjusted for azimuth. My thinking was that the weight of the slide plate could affect the arm. So.....everything is in position and then I screwed the 2nd pivot screw to just touch the plate.....and then rechecked the azimuth. Actually it takes more words than effort to adjust the gizmo.


OK cool - I think I am with you now! ;) - Will have a play with this over the longer holiday weekend - if the family allows me to! :lol:

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby leftside » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:19 pm

VinBob wrote:
Sorry, when you say difference in adjusting the screw on the point to reset azimuth, are you referring to the dual pivot point screw and what do you mean by resetting the azimuth? Just want to make sure I am not misinterpreting something and thanks for your patience!

Cheers,
Vin.

If I said "set" instead of "reset" does that help? I already had the azimuth "set" when I just had the single pivot.

I'm not sure if I heard anything different with the dual pivot over the unipivot (hard to tell as my cart was away for 3 months), but the setup is much easier. My hands aren't shaky, but the tonearm is also definitely easier to handle with the dual pivot.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby VinBob » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:25 pm

leftside wrote:
VinBob wrote:
Sorry, when you say difference in adjusting the screw on the point to reset azimuth, are you referring to the dual pivot point screw and what do you mean by resetting the azimuth? Just want to make sure I am not misinterpreting something and thanks for your patience!

Cheers,
Vin.

If I said "set" instead of "reset" does that help? I already had the azimuth "set" when I just had the single pivot.

I'm not sure if I heard anything different with the dual pivot over the unipivot (hard to tell as my cart was away for 3 months), but the setup is much easier. My hands aren't shaky, but the tonearm is also definitely easier to handle with the dual pivot.


Yes, all clear thanks and now that I think of it some more, you are essentially 'resetting' the Azimuth by using the dual pivot point method! ;) - Thanks again!

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby Brf » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:54 am

Vin, no one will ever accuse you of being an earlier adopter ;)

Go ahead and purchase the dual pivot and if you run into any setup difficulty, I'll send you my phone number and I will walk you through the process. I am confident that once you get the dual pivot, you will enjoy the benefits.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby VinBob » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:21 am

Brf wrote:Vin, no one will ever accuse you of being an earlier adopter ;)

Go ahead and purchase the dual pivot and if you run into any setup difficulty, I'll send you my phone number and I will walk you through the process. I am confident that once you get the dual pivot, you will enjoy the benefits.


Much appreciated Brf and yes, no early adoption for me! :lol:

I actually have purchased the dual pivot already and have had it for several months just sitting around as I was dealing with my Lyra Delos cartridge situation together with some family matters. I think I have a better sense of how to install this and I am going to do the following but if I get stuck for some reason, I certainly appreciate the offer of a walk through :)

Here is my plan:

1) Install the pivot point on the left hand side of the arm just behind the side weight
2) Align the plate with some blu tack to make sure it's in the correct position (test by moving the arm to ensure the pivot is still over the plate at the beginning and end of LP
3) Reset the Soundsmith CI so that it is not leaning to one side or another and is centered (Do I need to do this?) - My counterweight is already centered
4) Adjust the pivot point screw so that it is lightly touching the plate
5) Check Azimuth with Foz and make incremental adjustments via dual pivot point
6) Re-check VTF - but that shouldn't have changed I would think, as I am no longer touching the counterweight or Soundsmith CI

My only concern with the above, is that by adding the dual pivot point, there is now more weight on the left hand side - so would one not need to compensate for this by making some adjustment either via the counterweight or right hand side weight? Its just confusing in that some that have installed have the side weights fully locked (not extended) how I have them now and there is no mention of making any adjustments to load balance via say the counterweight... I guess this is the only bit that has me scratching my head still otherwise, I am almost there...! ;)

Cheers,
Vin.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby Jprod » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:26 pm

Im also going to pile on with a question- Did everyone remove the antiskate either via the lemmo twist or rubber washer method once they installed the dual pivot as was mentioned by the original poster?
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby Brf » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:52 pm

Jprod wrote:Im also going to pile on with a question- Did everyone remove the antiskate either via the lemmo twist or rubber washer method once they installed the dual pivot as was mentioned by the original poster?


No, I still use A/S with the dual pivot. I am not a big fan of the twisted Lemo wire, therefore, I use the VPI mechanical A/S sevice.

VinBob wrote:My only concern with the above, is that by adding the dual pivot point, there is now more weight on the left hand side - so would one not need to compensate for this by making some adjustment either via the counterweight or right hand side weight? Its just confusing in that some that have installed have the side weights fully locked (not extended) how I have them now and there is no mention of making any adjustments to load balance via say the counterweight... I guess this is the only bit that has me scratching my head still otherwise, I am almost there...! ;)
.


You might. The first thing to do once you install the dual pivot is to achieve neutral lateral balance of the tonearm by adjusting the side azimuth weights/counter weight/soundsmith counter intuitive with the dual pivot set screw fully withdrawn. Once you have achieved lateral equilibrium, extend the dual pivot set screw down towards the skate plate but not touching the plate. Now load the dual pivot using your preferred loading option (azimuth side weights/counter weight/soundsmith counter intuitive) until the pivot point sets down onto the skate plate ( not too much weight). Once you have loaded the dual pivot, you can adjust the set screw to obtain optimal azimuth.

Personally, I would get rid of the counter intuitive and perform all lateral adjustments using the side azimuth weight.
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby VinBob » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:52 pm

Brf wrote:
Jprod wrote:Im also going to pile on with a question- Did everyone remove the antiskate either via the lemmo twist or rubber washer method once they installed the dual pivot as was mentioned by the original poster?


No, I still use A/S with the dual pivot. I am not a big fan of the twisted Lemo wire, therefore, I use the VPI mechanical A/S sevice.

VinBob wrote:My only concern with the above, is that by adding the dual pivot point, there is now more weight on the left hand side - so would one not need to compensate for this by making some adjustment either via the counterweight or right hand side weight? Its just confusing in that some that have installed have the side weights fully locked (not extended) how I have them now and there is no mention of making any adjustments to load balance via say the counterweight... I guess this is the only bit that has me scratching my head still otherwise, I am almost there...! ;)
.


You might. The first thing to do once you install the dual pivot is to achieve neutral lateral balance of the tonearm by adjusting the side azimuth weights/counter weight/soundsmith counter intuitive with the dual pivot set screw fully withdrawn. Once you have achieved lateral equilibrium, extend the dual pivot set screw down towards the skate plate but not touching the plate. Now load the dual pivot using your preferred loading option (azimuth side weights/counter weight/soundsmith counter intuitive) until the pivot point sets down onto the skate plate ( not too much weight). Once you have loaded the dual pivot, you can adjust the set screw to obtain optimal azimuth.

Personally, I would get rid of the counter intuitive and perform all lateral adjustments using the side azimuth weight.


Thanks again Brf and will try the side weights as you suggested - I assume I would just have to adjust only the right side weight to extend out as there will be more mass on the left hand side due to the dual pivot correct? I think I am following you but will let you know once I roll my sleeves up and get to this over the weekend. Are all of my other steps OK otherwise?

I do wish VPI would put an instructional video out on this but it is what it is... :roll:
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby Pianist » Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:40 pm

I installed the kit today and love it! Cuing is so much easier, the cartridge no longer wobbles as it descends nor skates across the first track, and the bass is deeper and tighter. Installation and adjustments took maybe 30 minutes. Count me as one satisfied customer!
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Re: First impression of the Dual Pivot Kit

Postby leftside » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:56 pm

I calibrated the Fozgometer last weekend and this weekend I used it to setup the azimuth with the Analogue Productions Test LP. I wasn't too far out setting it manually. I just needed to adjust the small screw on the dual-pivot counter-clockwise by one third of a turn. I can't possibly imagine making such small tweaks without the dual-pivot.

The Foz says I have a slight channel imbalance though when playing the mono track. It appears the left channel is slightly stronger by 1 notch on the Foz (1db). I'll investigate further, but for now it doesn't seem to make much of a difference. I can simply slightly adjust the balance on the preamp if I really need to.
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