MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby ggergm » Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:30 am

After 36 years of using a HW-16/16.5, I upgraded to a MW-1. My machine arrived from VPI on Monday. In many respects it's both a significant step-up and very familiar. Its added suction is appreciated, as is its solidity. I am having a small issue. When drying a record, fluid remains in the tube and can recontaminate the album.

I use enough fluid to cover the record, being a big fan of letting a record soak for a minute or two. I'll often use the brush as the first step in removing the fluid. I'll scrub the record, then wipe the brush against my pants' leg, drying it off. After another couple of revolutions of scrubbing, I'll again dry the brush on my pants. I can remove a lot of fluid this way.

When I start vacuuming the record dry, the first revolution removes most of the fluid. Some of the fluid stays in the tube, bubbling around its side. Sometimes a little goes back down through the slot. I can tell because a part of the record is wet again.

My solution has been to lift the tube from the record for a split second. The rush of air clears the tube. Usually doing it after the first revolution is sufficient. Sometimes it has to be repeated after the second revolution. Another two or three more revolutions and the record is dry.

My old, no longer square 16.5 didn't have as tight a seal between the tube and the LP. While I sometimes saw the same bubbling of fluid in the tube, air leaks would clear it. The MW-1 makes a solid seal with the record. No air can get in.

I've tried reversing the revolution of the platter to see if that would help clear the tube of fluid. It made no difference. I am currently using TM-8 for fluid but I will switch around. The waste tube is well clamped shut. (Never having a waste tube before, I plan to add a shut-off valve and more ¼" clear plastic tubing so that the machine drains into a vintage hospital glass urinal. It has "urine specimen" embossed on the glass. Perfect.)

Someone mentioned I should post my problem here. It really isn't a problem. I easily can lift the pick-up tube for a fraction of a second. That solves everything. Maybe someone else has insight to my situation and a better solution.
User avatar
ggergm
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby Mr_Putty » Sat Jul 25, 2020 1:48 am

Use a micro fiber cloth instead of you pants.
:shock:
Mr_Putty
Senior Member
 
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:44 am

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby ggergm » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:56 am

Mr_Putty wrote:Use a micro fiber cloth instead of you pants.
:shock:

You're not the first person to suggest that. Hey, if my pants get too wet from multiple record cleanings, I'll move to my shirt. :P

Either fits my style.

Speaking of that, here is my fluid receptacle. It arrived yesterday from eBay.

Image
User avatar
ggergm
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby thegage » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:37 am

The Cyclone directions say that the tube slot should not be square to the LP, but rather the tube should be rotated a bit to allow some air bleed and aid fluid removal. How is your tube oriented?

And what Mr. Putty said.

JohnK
TNT 2, Classic platter, Periphery Ring, Stillpoints LPI, VPI Fatboy 12 Gimbal, Hana ML, Moon 310LP, PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium pre, PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP amp, Golden Ear Triton 2+, Martin Logan Depth
thegage
Senior Member
 
Posts: 474
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:41 am

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby ggergm » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:22 pm

thegage wrote:The Cyclone directions say that the tube slot should not be square to the LP, but rather the tube should be rotated a bit to allow some air bleed and aid fluid removal. How is your tube oriented?

JohnK

Good point, John. I'd forgotten about that fact, the reason the tube slot was added years ago. I have a spare tube and hub here. The tube that came with my machine lines up square with either hub. The spare tube has the slot, or at least the black fabric strips, offset. I'll swap tubes.

Gregg
User avatar
ggergm
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby madrac » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:41 pm

Great fluid receptacle, Gregg. Thanks for posting - I needed a good laugh today.
Classic 1-3D arm, VTA tower,periphery ring,PE Eagle & RR, HW16.5, VAS NOVA, Soundsmith Paua, Manley Chinook,
Anthem MRX720, Rogue Atlas Magnum II, Sierra Towers w/ RAAL, Rythmik E15HPx2,
Audio Sensibility, Blue Jeans ICs, Symposium & Isoacoustics
madrac
Senior Member
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:36 am

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby Brf » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:56 pm

From a previous thread

Brf wrote:I have never used a MW-1, but I've used a bi-directional VPI cleaning machine for 15+ years and they are all work on the same basic design. Best results have always been based on vacuuming only in the clockwise position. It does not make sense to perform vacuuming in both directions since the vacuuming process is NOT suppose to perform any scrubbing/cleaning action, only waste water evacuation.

In the reverse position, the vacuuming technique is compromised since the wand's leading edge will be the felt pad forcing the dirty fluid to pass under the pressurized felt pad towards the back vacuum inlet slot. Why would you want the dirty fluid to be partially filtered by the felt pad, thus becoming contaminated, prior to been vacuumed?

In the forward position, the leading edge is the vacuum slot which creates a low pressure wave that picks up the waste fluid with minimal contact, followed by the vacuumed cleaned record passing a "contaminate free" felt protective pad.

BTW, if it takes more than 2 rotations to sufficiently vacuum the record, your vacuum wand is not properly oriented.

Sorry to contradict the MW-1 manual, but this has been my experience and understanding.


Brf wrote:
The problem with having the slot perpendicular to the record surface is that it reduces the size of the inlet port (slot) due to the fact that record in itself will be blocking (or partially blocking) the slot. When this happens, air speed increases, pressure decreases. A drop in pressure translates into greater suction and too much suction will drive the wand into the record causing friction, or perhaps completely reducing air flow.

The inlet port of the record cleaner wand must be tuned to create the correct balance of low level pressure (suction). To achieve the correct balance, the wand's inlet must be "tuned" somewhere between the fully closed position (wand perpendicular with the slot blocked) and a fully opened position (slot free of any obstruction). This is why a bi-directional vacuuming does not make sense. It will work, but one direction will always favor the other.

To illustrate this point, take a regular household vacuum cleaner using the open end and test the effectiveness of the suction when used perpendicular (closed position) vs. using the vacuum and varying the height of the leading edge. You will notice a difference is both suction and drag (friction of the vacuum).

Perhaps VPI will chime in..... I could be wrong and it will not be the first time, but that the "theory" behind vacuum tube orientation.
User avatar
Brf
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4541
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:23 am

Re: MW-1 Cyclone - fluid not clearing the tube

Postby ggergm » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:52 pm

Just to wrap up this thread and tie it closed, the suggestion by John (thegage) that the pickup tube might be the problem was right on. I swapped it out with a backup tube I had here and the problem went away. The slot on the tube that came with the Cyclone was exactly perpendicular to the record and sealed all too well, causing the problem. I'm a happy camper now.

Here are pictures of the installation of my urine specimen/waste water solution for the machine. Kudos go to another member, attym, who I know from another board. We are friends. While searching this forum over my pickup tube problem, seeing if it had been addressed before, I came across a post with pictures of his setup. He used a shutoff valve to control the waste water from his 16.5. I stole his idea.

My installation works fine although I'm less than thrilled with the brass connector and shutoff valve I got from Home Depot. They are universal for any tube with an OD of ⅜". Maybe they work better with metal tubing but their use with a plastic tube feels iffy. It's solid enough for now but I am keeping my eye open for different brass pieces.

Anyway, my MW-1 is up and running. It cleans better than my 16.5, is more rugged and a pleasure to use. Who could ask for more?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
User avatar
ggergm
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:50 pm


Return to Support Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests

x