Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Brf » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:16 pm

Ducky wrote:It doesn't look like we are going to see the deluxe version of the ADS any time soon.

Has anyone seen or used this controller: http://www.9tci.com ?

It looks rather interesting. For about the same price as the current ADS ($1250) it seems to do a lot more (dual phase, tachometer feedback, two motors, crystal controlled). I wonder if anyone here has first-hand experience with this power supply?


Thanks for the link. Look to be a well thought out design. Is this a Mark Kelly design?
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Ducky » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:27 pm

I think it was done by Stephen Tuckett (he also makes turntables under the Number 9 name):

http://www.avhub.com.au/news/hi-fi/number9-turntable-395552
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby EdAInWestOC » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:52 am

Ducky wrote:I think it was done by Stephen Tuckett (he also makes turntables under the Number 9 name):

http://www.avhub.com.au/news/hi-fi/number9-turntable-395552


It reminds me of the Denon DP-1800 turntable from many years ago.

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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Packgrog » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:25 pm

Ducky wrote:It doesn't look like we are going to see the deluxe version of the ADS any time soon.

Has anyone seen or used this controller: http://www.9tci.com ?

It looks rather interesting. For about the same price as the current ADS ($1250) it seems to do a lot more (dual phase, tachometer feedback, two motors, crystal controlled). I wonder if anyone here has first-hand experience with this power supply?

Intriguing. Not cheap, but intriguing. People with older 10W motors would have to stick with the ADS or SDS (or Eagle, if they could find one), but most of the current lineup are all 7W, so most VPI users would be golden. I'm not sure of the value of the higher precision calculations over the VPI or Phoenix PSUs, though, as even stable platters have a good +-0.003 RPM bobble (fluctuation). Unless the auto-adjustment is smart enough with averaging the measured speed to find the target speed, I don't see a lot of value in the more complicated math processing.
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby JimTimP » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:56 pm

Nice site and nice product. Didn't see a 'Buy Now' button. Is it available?
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Mat » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:21 pm

Yeah, the whole Mark Levinson project really set us back on our project time frame. The Voyager almost missed it's launch completely and the next level ADS totally got pushed to the back. Good news is we learned a lot and have improved our technology and as a company from the experience so the delay might end up being all the better in the end :)
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Number9 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:59 pm

Packgrog wrote:
Ducky wrote:It doesn't look like we are going to see the deluxe version of the ADS any time soon.

Has anyone seen or used this controller: http://www.9tci.com ?

It looks rather interesting. For about the same price as the current ADS ($1250) it seems to do a lot more (dual phase, tachometer feedback, two motors, crystal controlled). I wonder if anyone here has first-hand experience with this power supply?

Intriguing. Not cheap, but intriguing. People with older 10W motors would have to stick with the ADS or SDS (or Eagle, if they could find one), but most of the current lineup are all 7W, so most VPI users would be golden. I'm not sure of the value of the higher precision calculations over the VPI or Phoenix PSUs, though, as even stable platters have a good +-0.003 RPM bobble (fluctuation). Unless the auto-adjustment is smart enough with averaging the measured speed to find the target speed, I don't see a lot of value in the more complicated math processing.


The main reason I included such high level maths capability into the design was because they were a number of "unknowns" I thought needed to be explored. I have spent 40 years dividing my time between running a hi-fi shop, operating a recording studio and designing loudspeakers both here in Australia and in Scandinavia. During this time, I gained a good sense of what the questions were, The Number Nine turntable project was my first serious attempt to find out what the answers were.

First questions were around Pitch. None of my friends in the recording industry including a couple of guys who had been cutting engineers in the UK and the US for over 30 years were unable to tell me what the absolute accuracy of a Neuman or Scully lathe was. This made it a little difficult for me to provide a definitive target spec for my engineers. It wasn't until I was introduced to one of the country's leading piano tuners that I was able gain an understanding of the concept of pitch in a musical sense.

Piano tuners work in units known as "Musical Cents", a Cent being 1/100th of a semitone. In an orchestra, the aim is to tune to within one musical cent of Concert A. So it was decided that pitch resolution less than or equal to 1 musical cent would be the target specification. This would require a waveform generator accurate to 3 decimal places to achieve a consistent pitch somewhere in the region of a quarter of a musical cent, well below the limit of human hearing. A 2.5 ppm temperature stabilised crystal oscillator was chosen to ensure long-term stability. The industry-standard at the time was 100 ppm. Crystal clocks lose accuracy over time and in response to variations in temperature. Our clock was specified to be rate at one part per million per year. So, setting aside the mechanical issues, for our clock to to drift to the point where the pitch variation would be audible to a professional musician, i.e. a one cent variation, according to the maths it would take 5078 years. Overkill? Damn right!!! Why? Cos we could!

Next came Phase. It was pretty much understood that the optimum phase angle between windings of the typical synchronous AC motor is almost never 90° exactly. The big unknown here was what was the exact frequency that would produce the lowest current ripple for a given motor? There's been very little research done on this. So we couldn't know whether we needed to implement 1° steps, 0.1° steps or 0.01° steps. So in order to deal with any possibility we originally specified 0.01° steps. This is where the serious maths capability comes in. Because the original controller was designed to drive two motors simultaneously, we needed to be able to calculate simultaneously on-the-fly, four perfect 1024 step sinusoidal waveforms at XX.XXXHz while also calculating the time shifts necessary to set the phase angle between all four waveforms to an accuracy of XX.XX degrees and performing continuous checksums 6000 times a second. Serious maths.

While all this is going on, the controller is watching for pulses from the tacho sensor, initiating the countdown from 4,000,000,000 to 0 during each revolution of the platter looking for errors in making decisions about the size of the error, the likely cause and what to do about it. Serious maths indeed.

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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Packgrog » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:43 am

Very cool, thanks for the explanation!
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Dorian » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:16 am

Thanks for the detailed explanation Steve!
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Re: Update On 3rd Version of ADS?

Postby Guss2 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:59 pm

Thank you Steve and welcome to the forum.
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