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Prime tone arm is sliding through the lead in groove, into 1st track. PROBLEM SOLVED
#1
I've had the Prime for 6 years, but the arm developed a droop and VPI graciously replaced it. However, when I lower the new arm, it drifts inwards, towards the spindle. Often, it slides right accross the lead-in grooves and slams into the music, and I can not figure out why. I did not have this problem with the original arm. I am not inexperienced...I worked as a radio station DJ back when we played records, and I've owned an HW19 with an Origin Live modded Rega arm since 1984. I use pretty good setup tools, including a Mint protractor, Riverstone scale  and a Fozgometer.

I don't think its a skating problem. The stylus needs to be on a rotating record to skate. But I can see the arm drifting inwards, even when I lower it  into the space between the armrest and the platter. No amount of twisting the wire makes a difference. 

I don't think its the cueing mechanism, because I have the same problem when I lower the arm by hand. 

I don't think its an azimuth issue, because the arm is perfectly level, side to side, and the azimuth checks out perfectly with my Fozgometer. 

I am using the dual pivot, but I have the same problem when I am not using it.

Maybe its the cartridge. The Charisma MC-1 weighs 13.6 grams, and was recently re-tipped by SoundSmith with a boron cantilever. It worked fine on the original arm, but the re-tip is one variable I have introduced. 

Otherwise, the turntable sounds fine to my 67 year old years, but I'm thinking that it would sound better if I could solve this problem. Any suggestions will be much appreciated.

http://www.charismaaudio.com/wp-content/...arisma.pdf
2016 Prime with 2021 arm, dual pivot, HW-40 feet, Graham Slee Assension for Moving coil with Engima power supply, Sonic Euphioria autoformer preamp, NuPrime ST-10 power amp, Usher BE-718 speakers, PS Audio P-500 Power Plant  
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#2
M3man, if you adjust the counterweight to balance the arm at horizontal with the cueing lever down, and float the arm, where does it go?
VPI Avenger Direct (Serial #0001 Big Grin ), Fatboy gimbal 12”, various carts, Von Schweikert E SE, Pass XP20, Pass X260.8 monoblocks, PS Audio PST and DS DAC, Sonore ultraRendu, Matrix X-SPDIF2
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#3
When you manually (no cue mechanism) set the cartridge into the lead-in groove, does the cartridge still jump?
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#4
Tony, this is strange, but fascinating. When balanced and allowed to float, the arm does not move inwards, as you might expect. Instead, it stays in place. But when I tap it to make it bounce  up and down, it doesn't go straight up and down. At the top of the bounce, it moves inwards, maybe a half an inch or more. But then at the bottom of the bounce, it moves back to the original position. In other words, it goes up and down at an angle. If straight up and down is 90 degrees, this is more like 75 degrees. But the arm does not end up any closer to the center. It just goes up and down in the same spot, and a weird angle.

I have no idea what that means. I tried rotating the counterweight, but I have to rotate it a dramatic amount to get it to go straight up and down. The thumbscrew ends up pointing to about 10 o'clock, and the head shell is twisted far away from being parallel to the platter. 

Hopefully someone from VPI can explain what is going on.

And to BRF, if it jumps using the cuing lever, it also jumps when I cue it manually. This is true of more than half the records I play. With the others, it does not jump. I suspect this has more to do with how the run in grooves are cut. Maybe if there are more grroves, it is more likely to catch, and stop sliding. Whereas is there is more blank space, it may be more likely to jump.

Thanks for the input!
2016 Prime with 2021 arm, dual pivot, HW-40 feet, Graham Slee Assension for Moving coil with Engima power supply, Sonic Euphioria autoformer preamp, NuPrime ST-10 power amp, Usher BE-718 speakers, PS Audio P-500 Power Plant  
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#5
Is the tip of the bearing spike bent in any way?
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#6
(04-06-2022, 10:38 PM)tony22 Wrote: M3man, if you adjust the counterweight to balance the arm at horizontal with the cueing lever down, and float the arm, where does it go?

(04-07-2022, 12:26 AM)seamonster Wrote: Is the tip of the bearing spike bent in any way?

Bearing spike tip looks perfectly straight.

Thanks for your input.
2016 Prime with 2021 arm, dual pivot, HW-40 feet, Graham Slee Assension for Moving coil with Engima power supply, Sonic Euphioria autoformer preamp, NuPrime ST-10 power amp, Usher BE-718 speakers, PS Audio P-500 Power Plant  
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#7
(04-06-2022, 10:38 PM)tony22 Wrote: M3man, if you adjust the counterweight to balance the arm at horizontal with the cueing lever down, and float the arm, where does it go?

(04-07-2022, 12:26 AM)seamonster Wrote: Is the tip of the bearing spike bent in any way?

Bearing spike tip looks perfectly straight.

Thanks for your input.
2016 Prime with 2021 arm, dual pivot, HW-40 feet, Graham Slee Assension for Moving coil with Engima power supply, Sonic Euphioria autoformer preamp, NuPrime ST-10 power amp, Usher BE-718 speakers, PS Audio P-500 Power Plant  
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#8
What is the compliance of the new cantilever? My Soundsmith cart has a compliance of 10. Maybe you need to add mass to deter the skipping?
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#9
Make sure the anti skate wire is not accidentally catching on something
Avenger MK1 Reference, Fatboy 12” Uni, Koetsu Rosewood Platinum, Eagle/Roadrunner, Audio Sensibility Cabling, ARC Phono Ref 2, ARC Ref 5SE, ARC Ref75, KimberKable 8TC, Vandersteen 3A Sig, Stillpoints under all
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#10
(04-06-2022, 11:52 PM)M3Man Wrote: Tony, this is strange, but fascinating. When balanced and allowed to float, the arm does not move inwards, as you might expect. Instead, it stays in place. But when I tap it to make it bounce  up and down, it doesn't go straight up and down. At the top of the bounce, it moves inwards, maybe a half an inch or more. But then at the bottom of the bounce, it moves back to the original position. In other words, it goes up and down at an angle. If straight up and down is 90 degrees, this is more like 75 degrees. But the arm does not end up any closer to the center. It just goes up and down in the same spot, and a weird angle.

A couple of things. Per Mike, is the anti-skate thread / filament in use? If it is, try disconnecting it. Also, can you post a picture of the whole tonearm, including a good look at the LEMO wire? It almost sounds like there’s some kind of weird torsion through there, possibly.
VPI Avenger Direct (Serial #0001 Big Grin ), Fatboy gimbal 12”, various carts, Von Schweikert E SE, Pass XP20, Pass X260.8 monoblocks, PS Audio PST and DS DAC, Sonore ultraRendu, Matrix X-SPDIF2
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